"Chaos" Was In God's Plan | Tony Smith | 029

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His fingerprints are on every
detail of it, even the details

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that are little messy and seem
to be have a little bit of

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demonic or or or devilish or
enemy teaming on it.

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God has orchestrated even the
mistakes that I've made by me

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personally, the mistakes that my
parents made, all of us been

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orchestrated to get me to at
this point.

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Welcome to When You Look, where
ordinary people share their

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extraordinary experiences and
you get to decide, was it

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coincidence or God?
Tony, welcome to When You Look.

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So great to have you on the
show, man.

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Hi, I'm so glad to be here.
Thank you for inviting me.

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I'm looking forward to talking
to you and your listeners.

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Yeah, well, we really appreciate
that.

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We are looking forward to
hearing your amazing story.

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But before we get into that,
let's get to know you a little

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bit.
Tell us about yourself.

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I am a bi vocational pastor and
for those of you that don't know

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that term, that means I pastor a
church and I work as well.

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So I pastor the word church in
Ashburn, VA.

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That's right outside of Dulles
Airport, little bit outside of

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Washington, DC.
And I'm also a teacher.

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I teach social science, which is
all the histories, but I mainly

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specialize in government and
economics in the high school.

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So when I'm not pastoring or
doing something with pastoring,

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I'm at the school.
Vice versa.

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I have two kids.
I've been married actually this

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31st, I think that's the next
week. 21 years, 2 great sons

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again like Xavier and Josiah
Smith.

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And I'm a author.
I have 4 books and I'm working

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on my 5th book here this summer.
Hopefully I'll be able to finish

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that by the end of August.
Wow, congratulations on #5 being

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the most finished there and
thanks for all of that back

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story and Congrats on 21 years
too.

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Thank you.
Absolutely.

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Well, let's jump into your
story, give us a little bit of

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back story so we kind of
understand how things begin and

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then walk us through it
entirely.

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Absolutely.
Thank you for allowing me to

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share again.
So I'm just going to kind of go

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through the different parts of
my my journey.

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I come from a broken home.
My mother and my father married

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before I was born.
And then no, they actually

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married after I was born.
And then they got divorced or

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whatever.
And I went and I live with my my

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mother full time.
I would go on the weekends with

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my father, which she would then
take me to my grandmother's

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house to stay with my
grandmother.

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That's generally where all of my
cousins and all the family kind

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of congregated.
So, and he was, you know, living

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in his situation, but my mother
had some difficult times, some

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difficult things that she was
going through and couldn't fully

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provide the care that needed to
be cared for for me.

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So eventually my father gained
custody of me around the age of

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6, could have been a little bit
before, a little bit after.

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But around the age of 6, he
gained custody of me.

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And then he again allowed my
grandmother to take care of me,

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which was in my opinion, all
divine.

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But as I'll kind of go through
that, but when they enrolled me

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in the schools down here and at
at that time it was with Fairfax

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County Public Schools, coming
from Prince William Public

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Schools, I really wasn't in
school all that much.

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I may have went two days, three
days a week maybe.

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So when it came to Fairfax
County, my grandmother was

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taking me and enrolled me in the
school.

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And my father, you know, they
had to do some testing and all

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that kind of stuff.
They needed to to get all of

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that because they saw the
attendance record.

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My father and my grandmother
would then called into a meeting

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with the school to tell them
some unfortunate news.

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They said, you know, after we've
done all the testing and the

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things that we done, it looks,
it appears to us that he's going

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to have a lot of trouble.
They said, you know, he's never

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going to be able to be on the
great level of his peers.

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They said we'll do the best we
can.

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Essentially.
They said we're just going to

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pass him through to get him to
where he's done and you know,

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we're going to give him an IEP
that'll help us do that.

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The kind of this passing through
to get him through school.

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And, you know, my grandmother
and father were, you know, this

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kind of hearing the information.
Both of them are not highly

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educated.
So they, you know, took the

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information and just kind of
said, OK, we'll, we'll deal with

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what we need to deal with.
They did tell them that I would

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never read and write
proficiently.

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So all of these different things
coming down the pipe and, you

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know, saying all of this stuff,
one of the, the, the sticking

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points and you probably for you
and your listeners will probably

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need to put a pin here is that
my grandmother, although I

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wouldn't say, how can I say,
wasn't like fully, fully in, in

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church, but she went, she went
every since she was religious,

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she went every Sunday and I
believe she loved the Lord and

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those types of things.
And she, she just had that

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connection with the church and
things like that.

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So she took me to church all the
time.

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And that way that just became my
foundation.

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You know, church was the thing
that just went that I went to

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all the time.
And I didn't know that it was

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going to kind of play into my
future.

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So just fast forwarding a little
bit is that I get to 9th grade

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and they come back and if you,
if any of you all have ever

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dealt with individual
educational plans or Ieps for

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short, they do re evaluations
yearly.

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And so in the ninth grade, they
did that re evaluation and they

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were absolutely amazed because
they were saying, OK, we see,

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you know, here where, you know,
all up to this point, we said,

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you know, he's not going to be
able to read, he's not going to

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be able to write.
And we get to 9th grade and we,

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we're dealing with these
caseworkers and stuff like that.

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And they say we don't see any of
that.

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We don't see, you know, he's,
he's functioning on grade level.

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They say we really don't think
he even needs the IEP anymore.

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You know, we can kind of remove
it.

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My grandmother said no because
she wanted me to still have the

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accommodations, which I was
grateful for.

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But we, you know, we don't
really see that need.

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And I want to just kind of
interject.

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There was a lady, her name, and
I don't even believe she's alive

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now, but she was a lady.
Her name was Miss Atkins, Miss

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Atkins.
And I can't really remember a

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lot of my teachers name, but I
do remember Miss Atkins taking a

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very, very keen interest in me
when I was in the 7th and the

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8th grade.
That's middle school for Fairfax

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High School, Fairfax County.
And I mean that Lady, work with

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me.
Work with me as it relate to my

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reading and writing and I but I
want to accredit some of my

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success to her because along the
way I believe God will put

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people on your pathway to help
you get to where you're going.

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And I mean, Miss Atkins really
worked with me really, really

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well to make sure that I, I
mean, and I think some of her

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technique was this really
encouraging me.

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She would, she would nominate me
for the student of the month

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every single month.
And I think that every, I think

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that that encouragement or that
maybe she was using some type of

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reverse psychology to kind of
get me to, to that point.

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And I, I guess it worked because
I, like I said, when I got to

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9th grade, they did the
reevaluation.

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They were like, you know, he's
doing fine.

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You know, you know, we don't, we
don't need any of these things.

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And, and I mean, I, I'm coming
from a person who could not read

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at all and, and really couldn't
write informed sentences to now

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getting into ninth grade.
You can do all of those things

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and proficiently and fast
forwarding a little bit, like I

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said earlier as we open the
podcast, you know, being the

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author of four books and now
working on my 5th, again, coming

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all the way from somebody who
couldn't read and write to

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somebody who is now authored 5
books.

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Not only authored 5 book,
authoring 5 books, but also so

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has obtained my bachelor's
degree.

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I have a bachelor's degree from
George Mason University in

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integrative studies.
I'm now working on my master's

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degree in school administration.
I have, I mean, that is just

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amazing.
Matter of fact, another thing is

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to, I was the first person in,
in my family on both sides, my

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mother and my father's side to
obtain my degree.

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Nobody in my family, my mother
on my father's side have has

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their degree and I've had my
about 3 or 4 years now.

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They still don't.
Nobody else has come up.

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Now they, we have some young
cousins that will probably come

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up after me, but I've been the
first one to do that.

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So again, my grandmother kept me
in church, kept me in church.

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And I believe, you know, a lot
of you know, a lot of times I've

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had to minister to people
because maybe the mother or

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father has not been in the
picture.

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But I believe it was divinely
orchestrated that my mother had

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to exit the picture because it
was, it was I needed to be with

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my grandmother so that she could
get the church inside of me or

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get God inside of me or whatever
you want to say it.

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Because when I became 24, well,
when I was 16, I became licensed

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as a minister.
And at 24, I started pastoring

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my first church, which I pastor
to this day.

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I started pastoring my first
church.

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I took a traditional Baptist
Church from tradition all the

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way into a non denominational
church, modern times.

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And you know, the Lord has just
moved through that piece of it

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because had I stayed with my
mother, I don't believe that,

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you know, I can't say it for
sure, but I don't believe that

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would have been my pathway
because that's not her pathway

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even now.
So all of that was orchestrating

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and, and, and working within it
to, to, to put you in a place

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where you know, you can be where
God wants you to be, when he

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wants you to be and how he wants
you to be there.

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And just so many miracles, so
many things that has happened

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even as even as pastoring this
church came in again 24 all the

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congregation, not just one
person, all the congregation was

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older than me.
And that was, you know, a

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challenge within his within
itself.

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I was the youngest pastor when I
started pastor in that church.

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I was the youngest pastor in our
county.

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There was no pastor, so I had no
template to look at to say, OK,

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how does this go?
How do you pastor people that's

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older you than you?
Other pastors in the area has

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said, you know, you're not going
to be able to do this.

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You're not going to be able to
carry that church.

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You're too young this that and
the other.

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But I had a, a, a pastor friend
of mine who gave me some some

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wise advice and he said that you
are not going to pastor these

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people out of your experience.
He says, always give them the

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word of God.
And that has helped me that I

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mean, that helped me throughout.
Even when I had to settle

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debates with some of the
members, you know, about, you

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know, what I was sharing with
them, we would always go back

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to, OK, I'm not giving you my
opinion, my preference, Let's go

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back to the word of God.
So those things shaped me in a

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way that I am now.
So again been pastoring this

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church.
The Lord has moved greatly.

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Now we have it is a multi
generational church.

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So I have people who are older
than me, people who are the same

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age as me and people who are
younger than me.

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We have a large young population
that's coming into the church.

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And even now, you know, older
people join like it's you know,

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it's nothing.
Even though I may be a much

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younger than than than them,
they still will join.

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But again, all of that stem from
really coming from a broken

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home.
So I would just wanted to share

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with your listeners that even in
broken situations, you know,

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there's a famous sermon that
goes around in our area talking

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about God can use broken pieces.
And I absolutely, absolutely

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believe that because again,
coming from a single parent home

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and all the different challenges
that that were associated with

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that to get into where I am now,
it it, it has been a blessing.

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Well, Tony, let's let's kind of
explore what you were talking

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about earlier, which is that you
believe that you kind of needed

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to be with grandma and not with
mom.

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And that's a bit non traditional
in terms of, you know, how

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people are formed in the home
and in the family.

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So tell us a little bit more
about your thinking there and

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00:13:54,120 --> 00:13:57,080
your experience with all that.
Absolutely.

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And and you know, I definitely
understand that's the

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traditional, you know, I guess
belief.

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But here is the thing for me,
God does his best work sometime

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in messy situations I would say.
And in the situation that I come

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from, we cannot give credit to
any really one person because

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all of them were separate,
meaning my mother was separate,

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00:14:28,120 --> 00:14:30,760
my father was separate, and my
grandmother was separate because

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they're all operating in
different spaces.

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So if I had come from where my
mother and my father are in the

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household, my mother and father
are Christians, then where I am

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now and what I've what what I've
achieved in in how I am in

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ministry because the Lord has
blessed me even in ministry to

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be called all over the United
States, preaching and teaching

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00:14:51,960 --> 00:14:53,640
in conferences and stuff like
that.

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00:14:54,040 --> 00:15:02,520
That credit could go to
sometimes being in a typical two

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00:15:02,520 --> 00:15:05,760
parent household and things of
that nature.

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But from the situation that I
come from and what I've come out

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of, really no credit can be
given to anyone individual

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00:15:15,200 --> 00:15:19,560
because all of the typical
things that I guess books and

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00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:26,240
statistics say that should be to
make a a upstanding person, you

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00:15:26,240 --> 00:15:30,320
know, are not there.
And also, I mean, even to go to

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this point, you know, even the
point of coming out of my mother

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00:15:35,520 --> 00:15:38,920
and father, I don't think I,
I'm, I'm going to go out on a

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ledge here just in case my
father sees this video or my

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mother.
But I don't think they stayed

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married four years.
I think if I, if I give them

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00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,960
four years, I'm going to give
them probably too much credit.

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But I'll say four years just
because I, I don't know for

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00:15:51,560 --> 00:15:56,040
sure.
But even that I don't have a

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00:15:56,040 --> 00:15:58,240
parent to look for even
marriage.

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00:15:58,520 --> 00:16:01,160
And my wife and I have been
married 21 years.

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00:16:01,520 --> 00:16:06,640
So all of this I really can't
give any of the credit to.

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I mean, anybody looking at my
life can say, OK, you know, he

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00:16:11,000 --> 00:16:14,680
was raised by his grandmother,
come out of broken home, You

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00:16:14,680 --> 00:16:18,520
know, he's not able to do so.
Only the credit can be given to

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God.
Yeah.

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00:16:22,440 --> 00:16:26,280
Thanks for breaking that down.
Maybe take us through some of

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00:16:26,280 --> 00:16:31,160
those high school years, which
of course are very formative and

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00:16:31,160 --> 00:16:36,720
you talked about how grandma
continued to have you in church

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00:16:37,240 --> 00:16:40,800
and maybe connect some of that
for us in terms of how do you

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00:16:40,800 --> 00:16:45,760
then become a pastor at, as you
described, the early age of 24?

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00:16:47,280 --> 00:16:52,720
So just to back up a little bit,
I have always had a love of

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00:16:52,720 --> 00:16:56,320
church and I love for the things
of God.

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I started, you know, I would say
I started preaching at 5 out

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00:16:59,720 --> 00:17:02,400
that, you know, one of my
birthday parties I turned into a

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00:17:02,400 --> 00:17:06,079
church service.
And if you see anybody who knows

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me, they, they will tell you
that because I was just all into

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church, all into church.
Even you know, in our church we

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had about two or 300 people.
And we were, this is many, many

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00:17:16,440 --> 00:17:18,319
years back.
We were on the cutting edge of

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00:17:18,319 --> 00:17:21,560
things because we had we had
children's church and praise

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00:17:21,560 --> 00:17:24,680
teams before that was even heard
of a thing in the black church.

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But I would never go down the
children's church.

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I will always stay in the main
church and even that looking

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00:17:31,240 --> 00:17:34,200
back, I'm thinking about, you
know, I would never go down to

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00:17:34,200 --> 00:17:36,000
children's church and thinking
back now.

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So OK, I was, I was getting
something learning maybe

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00:17:39,520 --> 00:17:43,360
structure and preaching and and
different things even from those

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00:17:43,360 --> 00:17:49,480
moments.
I will say this as well, coming

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00:17:49,480 --> 00:17:54,600
through different, even coming
through the elementary, the

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00:17:54,600 --> 00:17:57,400
middle school and the high
school years, some of it was

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00:17:57,400 --> 00:18:01,480
difficult for me.
But having church as my anchor

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00:18:01,480 --> 00:18:04,080
or God as my anchor helped me to
get through.

291
00:18:04,080 --> 00:18:07,920
I was challenged a lot in this
era.

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00:18:07,920 --> 00:18:10,440
You know, I tell them I always
joke with my sons because they

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00:18:10,440 --> 00:18:13,400
have anti bullying things in
school and stuff like that.

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00:18:13,560 --> 00:18:18,120
We had none of that, you know,
you know you would bullying was

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00:18:18,120 --> 00:18:20,280
a part of the culture of the
school.

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00:18:20,280 --> 00:18:22,800
You know, you just, you just
dealt with and you got over it,

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00:18:22,880 --> 00:18:27,120
it and you moved on.
But you know, it's so when I

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00:18:27,120 --> 00:18:30,360
look back over it, yeah, I was,
I was called, I, what do you

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00:18:30,360 --> 00:18:32,920
call it?
Passive aggressive, bullied

300
00:18:33,240 --> 00:18:35,480
about certain things in my
personality.

301
00:18:35,480 --> 00:18:39,520
And I was, you know, things
people would question my

302
00:18:39,520 --> 00:18:44,320
sexuality as well because I was
not doing what the other boys

303
00:18:44,320 --> 00:18:47,320
were doing because my old thing
was church in God.

304
00:18:48,720 --> 00:18:52,720
So I was not, you know, I was
not dressing like them.

305
00:18:52,720 --> 00:18:54,880
I wasn't doing the football, the
basket.

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00:18:54,880 --> 00:18:59,160
I wasn't doing any of that type
of stuff that they were doing.

307
00:18:59,160 --> 00:19:02,720
So it, it was a challenge.
It was a challenge for me at

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00:19:02,720 --> 00:19:04,840
that time.
But I'm so grateful at this

309
00:19:04,840 --> 00:19:08,040
particular time that that at
least I believe that the Lord

310
00:19:08,120 --> 00:19:10,680
anchored me and was able to get
me through those seasons and

311
00:19:10,680 --> 00:19:13,880
those times because I can kind
of look back over some of the

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00:19:13,880 --> 00:19:15,600
people who were doing the
bullying.

313
00:19:15,960 --> 00:19:20,280
And to be honest with you, I've
had to preach some some of their

314
00:19:20,280 --> 00:19:22,960
funerals.
I've had to, you know, go to

315
00:19:23,000 --> 00:19:26,760
visit them at jail cells.
Some of them have even come back

316
00:19:26,760 --> 00:19:31,000
to me and apologize because they
didn't understand me at that

317
00:19:31,000 --> 00:19:35,920
particular point.
But I, I just see it even now, I

318
00:19:35,920 --> 00:19:40,200
see like the hand of the Lord,
his grace, his arm was upon me,

319
00:19:40,280 --> 00:19:44,000
His favor was upon me to even
navigate those, those turbulent

320
00:19:44,000 --> 00:19:46,920
times and those bullying seasons
to be able to keep on my because

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00:19:47,080 --> 00:19:50,440
in this moment, you know, when
you think about it, a lot of

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00:19:50,600 --> 00:19:55,080
young people are not even able
to handle that pressure.

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00:19:55,320 --> 00:19:58,720
And suicide is on the rise.
And you know, it's, it's, it's

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00:19:59,640 --> 00:20:04,040
continuing every day.
All of that stuff never ever

325
00:20:04,040 --> 00:20:08,640
entered my mind because I was so
anchored in hearing the messages

326
00:20:08,640 --> 00:20:10,960
from church and stuff like you
know, when they would say, you

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00:20:10,960 --> 00:20:14,760
know, hold on and, and, and, and
be who God called you to be.

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00:20:14,760 --> 00:20:18,440
And, you know, and, and I came
out of a church where our Bishop

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00:20:18,440 --> 00:20:21,600
used to preach the same message
for like 3 years.

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00:20:21,600 --> 00:20:23,000
He, he would stay on the same
topic.

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00:20:23,000 --> 00:20:26,480
So you would get it and there's
some suddenly we like, we got

332
00:20:26,480 --> 00:20:28,240
it.
We got it, you know, but he will

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00:20:28,240 --> 00:20:30,640
stay on that same hammering that
same topic out.

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00:20:30,640 --> 00:20:33,520
But looking back, I'm so
grateful because there were

335
00:20:33,520 --> 00:20:39,200
things in his preaching that
caused us to be very, very

336
00:20:39,200 --> 00:20:42,840
stable because we had heard it
so long.

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00:20:43,080 --> 00:20:46,120
And I think about the scripture
that faith cometh by hearing and

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00:20:46,120 --> 00:20:49,720
hearing by the word of God.
He took that seriously and and

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00:20:49,720 --> 00:20:54,760
and I mean inculcate us with
that message.

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00:20:54,920 --> 00:20:58,800
So I have to say that I was
grounded in the in that word.

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00:21:00,840 --> 00:21:05,040
Wow man that's so neat.
Thank you for sharing all that.

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00:21:05,920 --> 00:21:08,560
So how do you then become a
pastor?

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00:21:10,840 --> 00:21:13,320
Let me say this, I was tricked
by God.

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00:21:16,520 --> 00:21:18,480
Well, there's got to be a story
there.

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00:21:18,680 --> 00:21:23,960
I was, I was tricked by God.
So I was a part of this church

346
00:21:24,200 --> 00:21:28,720
for many years.
I think I joined there in 2000.

347
00:21:28,880 --> 00:21:34,000
Yeah, I think I joined there in
2000 or 2002 and I was there, I

348
00:21:34,000 --> 00:21:36,440
was serving.
I I came in as a a staff

349
00:21:36,440 --> 00:21:40,200
musician and then I moved to a
youth pastor that I moved to an

350
00:21:40,200 --> 00:21:44,160
assistant pastor.
At some point in time when I was

351
00:21:44,160 --> 00:21:48,160
assistant pastor, I resigned
from that church and I started

352
00:21:48,160 --> 00:21:51,800
to go to a church in Washington,
DC, about 45 minutes away from

353
00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:54,240
my house called Greater Mount
Calvary Holy Church.

354
00:21:54,520 --> 00:21:58,880
I was there for like two or
three months and the pastor at

355
00:21:58,880 --> 00:22:01,160
the church that I left, he
resigned.

356
00:22:02,200 --> 00:22:05,000
I get a call from one of the
board of directors at that time

357
00:22:05,000 --> 00:22:09,520
and say, hey, listen, I know you
left, but we need you to come

358
00:22:09,520 --> 00:22:12,200
back and hold the church
together because you were here

359
00:22:12,200 --> 00:22:16,320
for so long.
Everybody knows you and we feel

360
00:22:16,320 --> 00:22:19,640
comfortable with you coming back
to, you know, be at least be the

361
00:22:19,640 --> 00:22:21,400
minister to preach on Sunday
mornings.

362
00:22:21,760 --> 00:22:26,320
So I said yes, with an
agreement, with a, with a

363
00:22:26,320 --> 00:22:28,240
disclaimer.
I say, listen, I'm going to come

364
00:22:28,240 --> 00:22:30,000
back.
The only thing I'm going to be

365
00:22:30,000 --> 00:22:31,840
doing is preaching on Sunday
mornings.

366
00:22:32,040 --> 00:22:33,600
That's it.
That's all I want to do.

367
00:22:33,960 --> 00:22:37,840
You all handle all the other
stuff that that goes along with,

368
00:22:37,960 --> 00:22:40,440
with whatever the church is
doing or, or going through.

369
00:22:41,200 --> 00:22:43,440
And they agreed and we rolled up
that agreement.

370
00:22:43,440 --> 00:22:46,400
So I get there.
I start ministering on Sunday

371
00:22:46,400 --> 00:22:49,400
mornings and at that particular
time, I think the church is

372
00:22:49,400 --> 00:22:56,400
maybe 20, maybe 30.
The church starts to grow in

373
00:22:56,400 --> 00:23:02,480
about 6 to 8 months.
We're probably at about 60

374
00:23:02,480 --> 00:23:06,680
people now.
And at that time I'm ready to

375
00:23:06,680 --> 00:23:10,200
go.
They have gotten their ducks in

376
00:23:10,200 --> 00:23:12,280
a row.
They've written out their pastor

377
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:15,640
search committee.
They done all the, the, the

378
00:23:15,640 --> 00:23:18,200
research and they're ready to
kind of post stuff on the

379
00:23:18,200 --> 00:23:20,680
website and ready to, you know,
start bringing in ministers,

380
00:23:20,800 --> 00:23:25,920
which they started to do.
It became a challenge because

381
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:32,640
now over half of the church is
there because of my preaching.

382
00:23:32,960 --> 00:23:36,160
And, you know, and I understand
that, you know, churches are,

383
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,080
you know, you're supposed to go
to church for the mission.

384
00:23:38,080 --> 00:23:41,600
That's a part of that church.
But I haven't had time to put

385
00:23:41,600 --> 00:23:45,120
that in the people.
They are there because of me and

386
00:23:45,120 --> 00:23:48,760
how I'm preaching and things
like that and, and whatever it

387
00:23:48,760 --> 00:23:51,120
caused.
So that became a challenge for

388
00:23:51,120 --> 00:23:55,480
the church because now again,
they want to move on.

389
00:23:55,480 --> 00:24:00,200
They and I want them to move on.
But now the members of the the

390
00:24:00,200 --> 00:24:04,080
members that are there are
saying, OK, we're here because

391
00:24:04,320 --> 00:24:09,120
Tony is here and if he leaves,
we're leaving.

392
00:24:09,600 --> 00:24:12,360
So it puts them in a bad
situation and it puts me in a

393
00:24:12,360 --> 00:24:16,560
bad situation.
But I wasn't interested in

394
00:24:16,560 --> 00:24:18,280
pastoring that particular
church.

395
00:24:18,280 --> 00:24:19,400
I could have started my own
church.

396
00:24:19,400 --> 00:24:20,840
I probably would have been OK
with that.

397
00:24:21,040 --> 00:24:24,160
I wasn't interested in pastoring
that particular church for

398
00:24:24,160 --> 00:24:30,320
various reasons.
So at one point in time during a

399
00:24:30,320 --> 00:24:34,000
board meeting, I was not there,
but they tell me this is how it

400
00:24:34,000 --> 00:24:37,200
happened.
There was a lady, she was an

401
00:24:37,200 --> 00:24:39,800
older lady of the church,
probably the gatekeeper of the

402
00:24:39,800 --> 00:24:43,200
church.
And she she she liked me as

403
00:24:43,200 --> 00:24:45,760
well.
And the but there was a

404
00:24:45,760 --> 00:24:48,440
coalition of people that said,
you know what, he's too young.

405
00:24:48,880 --> 00:24:51,280
And to be honest with you, mate,
they were right.

406
00:24:51,280 --> 00:24:53,360
I was too young to start
pastoring the church because I

407
00:24:53,360 --> 00:24:57,240
had no clue of what I was doing.
I was just so optimistic about

408
00:24:57,240 --> 00:25:00,560
church and I had no clue how all
of that stuff back in all that

409
00:25:00,560 --> 00:25:03,320
kind of stuff, the politics of
church didn't know how all that

410
00:25:03,720 --> 00:25:07,880
went, went down.
But in the meeting, this lady,

411
00:25:08,080 --> 00:25:11,800
Mary Glenn is her name and they
have the coalition said he was

412
00:25:11,800 --> 00:25:13,640
too young.
This lady, she stood up and she

413
00:25:13,640 --> 00:25:18,480
said I've been here for all of
my life and I thought she said

414
00:25:18,480 --> 00:25:23,720
that's been almost 70 years and
she said we've tried a number of

415
00:25:23,720 --> 00:25:28,120
older pastors and none of them
have worked out for us.

416
00:25:28,440 --> 00:25:31,640
She said we might as well go
ahead and try young pastor and

417
00:25:31,640 --> 00:25:35,880
see where he can take us.
And that pretty much to be

418
00:25:35,880 --> 00:25:41,000
honest with you, Nick sealed the
deal because I respected her and

419
00:25:41,000 --> 00:25:44,720
they respected her.
And when she said, she really

420
00:25:44,720 --> 00:25:48,280
said you coming to pastor this
church and, and, and really, she

421
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:52,320
said to me in a, a closed door
meeting with me and her, she

422
00:25:52,320 --> 00:25:54,360
said, I'll help you.
You know, she, she said, you

423
00:25:54,360 --> 00:25:56,600
know, I know you don't know all
the insurance and outs, she

424
00:25:56,600 --> 00:25:58,840
said, but I'll help you.
She's I've never been to pastor

425
00:25:58,840 --> 00:26:00,400
church, but I've been here for
70 years.

426
00:26:00,760 --> 00:26:02,520
I'll be able to, you know, help
you.

427
00:26:02,600 --> 00:26:04,920
And then you'll, you know, we'll
hook you up with some other

428
00:26:04,920 --> 00:26:07,920
pastors to be able to help you
navigate those seasons.

429
00:26:08,680 --> 00:26:16,120
And she was a furious, furious,
a proponent of mine until she

430
00:26:16,120 --> 00:26:19,840
died in 2022.
And the church went through

431
00:26:19,840 --> 00:26:23,880
multiple changes over the years
because it was a traditional

432
00:26:23,880 --> 00:26:26,960
Baptist Church and you know how
Baptist people are with their

433
00:26:26,960 --> 00:26:29,240
names.
And I decided that I was going

434
00:26:29,240 --> 00:26:30,400
to change the name of the
church.

435
00:26:31,360 --> 00:26:34,320
So and even in that she was a
supporter.

436
00:26:34,320 --> 00:26:37,040
So that's how I feel like the
Lord tricked me.

437
00:26:37,080 --> 00:26:41,800
But because again, I just came
in to preach on Sundays, he grew

438
00:26:41,800 --> 00:26:47,720
the church to a point where it
was either pastor the church as

439
00:26:47,720 --> 00:26:52,200
it was or come out and pastor my
own church, you know, start our

440
00:26:52,200 --> 00:26:54,680
own church.
So I just decided to go ahead

441
00:26:54,680 --> 00:26:57,440
and stay with some a little bit
of encouragement from some of

442
00:26:57,440 --> 00:27:01,040
the members.
Yeah, the best laid plans,

443
00:27:01,040 --> 00:27:04,720
right?
Yeah, I've heard it said that

444
00:27:04,720 --> 00:27:08,960
one of the best ways to make God
laugh is to have a plan.

445
00:27:09,200 --> 00:27:12,160
Oh yes, Oh yes, yes.
And I try to tell him what to do

446
00:27:12,160 --> 00:27:13,680
a lot.
You know, we're going to do

447
00:27:13,720 --> 00:27:15,520
this, we're going to do this,
we're going to do this.

448
00:27:17,600 --> 00:27:19,480
Yeah.
And he obviously has his

449
00:27:19,480 --> 00:27:21,720
decisions and he weighs in on
those things, so.

450
00:27:22,000 --> 00:27:24,560
True, so true.
The church always laughs at me

451
00:27:24,560 --> 00:27:26,560
because I when I say, I say,
we're going to be out of here

452
00:27:26,600 --> 00:27:28,840
early today.
And they laugh, they say, OK, we

453
00:27:28,840 --> 00:27:31,040
know this is going to be a long
Sunday, because there he goes,

454
00:27:31,440 --> 00:27:34,000
instructing the Lord Holy Spirit
what he's going to do.

455
00:27:36,840 --> 00:27:41,760
Oh man, that is too funny.
Well, Tony, you, you opened us

456
00:27:41,840 --> 00:27:48,240
with explaining about being very
underperforming in reading and

457
00:27:48,240 --> 00:27:51,760
writing, but you also gave us
some insight into four and

458
00:27:51,760 --> 00:27:56,280
almost the 5th book.
Now how did that become

459
00:27:57,040 --> 00:27:59,040
authoring?
I should say, how did authoring

460
00:27:59,040 --> 00:28:03,640
become a a big enough part of
your life that you've got not

461
00:28:03,640 --> 00:28:13,360
one, but many books?
So I wanted to write a book for

462
00:28:13,760 --> 00:28:17,280
a, let me say a non Christian
reason and I'll tell you what

463
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:20,400
the non Christian reason is.
I wanted to prove some people

464
00:28:20,400 --> 00:28:23,000
wrong.
There were some naysayers in my

465
00:28:23,000 --> 00:28:28,600
circle and they just didn't
think I could do such.

466
00:28:29,000 --> 00:28:33,320
So I sought out to do it to
prove them wrong, which I say is

467
00:28:33,320 --> 00:28:34,560
non Christian because we
shouldn't.

468
00:28:34,560 --> 00:28:36,560
That shouldn't be our motivation
for anything.

469
00:28:37,960 --> 00:28:42,680
But that was my motivation.
So I started out, I started to

470
00:28:42,680 --> 00:28:46,680
write the book and, and I was
working with a publisher and

471
00:28:46,920 --> 00:28:49,920
when I got the book back and I
started reading it, there were a

472
00:28:49,920 --> 00:28:53,760
lot of glaring errors, which I'm
not a good proof proofreader.

473
00:28:53,760 --> 00:28:57,320
So if I pick up errors in
somebody's work, I know it's

474
00:28:57,320 --> 00:28:59,880
wrong.
So because that's just not my

475
00:28:59,880 --> 00:29:02,760
skill set.
So I said, you know what?

476
00:29:02,760 --> 00:29:05,160
And I kept going back and forth
with the publisher, back and

477
00:29:05,160 --> 00:29:07,600
forth with the publisher and it
wasn't working out.

478
00:29:07,600 --> 00:29:12,000
I said, you know what, let's
push pause and I took the book

479
00:29:12,040 --> 00:29:15,720
out of the publishers hands and
I put it in my hands and I

480
00:29:15,720 --> 00:29:19,720
started to, after I completed
the manuscript, I started to go

481
00:29:19,720 --> 00:29:22,280
through the publishing process
myself.

482
00:29:22,600 --> 00:29:28,240
So not only did I, you know,
write the book, but I then also

483
00:29:28,240 --> 00:29:33,360
learned the publishing aspects
of it, which then enabled me to

484
00:29:33,360 --> 00:29:36,280
write more books.
So the first book I wrote was

485
00:29:36,280 --> 00:29:39,240
called moving forward.
The second book I wrote was

486
00:29:39,240 --> 00:29:45,680
called gold GOAL gold for it.
And then I wrote a book on how

487
00:29:45,680 --> 00:29:49,120
to write a book.
And then I wrote an affirmations

488
00:29:49,120 --> 00:29:52,680
book.
And then I am currently writing

489
00:29:52,720 --> 00:29:56,520
a funeral guide book to help
people who, you know, need to do

490
00:29:56,520 --> 00:30:00,200
funerals and stuff like that
have a, a, a, a nice skill set

491
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:02,960
in, in that area.
So I'm writing a book on, on

492
00:30:02,960 --> 00:30:06,800
that particular of, of funeral
management and things like that.

493
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:11,440
So the Lord has just blessed me
and I and, and people, people

494
00:30:11,440 --> 00:30:15,760
don't believe this, but I can
write a book pretty much in 30

495
00:30:15,760 --> 00:30:20,200
days, maybe it'll be about 100
to 200 pages.

496
00:30:20,520 --> 00:30:23,320
I teach in my class and I also
teach people how to write books

497
00:30:23,320 --> 00:30:26,600
as well.
I've taught about 20 more than

498
00:30:26,600 --> 00:30:28,520
20 people.
I've taught them how to, but at

499
00:30:28,520 --> 00:30:30,960
least 20 of them have written
their books and published them

500
00:30:31,040 --> 00:30:34,360
through the program that I
walked them through of how to

501
00:30:34,360 --> 00:30:38,200
this self published their books.
So once I learned the skill set

502
00:30:38,200 --> 00:30:42,200
of learning how to do it, what
to do again, I can, I can do it

503
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:45,560
like this.
All I need is the idea and then

504
00:30:45,560 --> 00:30:49,840
I can I can I can I can get a
book through in about 30 days

505
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:52,200
and probably be published in 90
days.

506
00:30:54,000 --> 00:30:55,560
Amazing.
Wow.

507
00:30:56,240 --> 00:30:59,680
Wow.
Well, Tony, you've walked us

508
00:30:59,680 --> 00:31:04,400
through quite a bit, truly.
And when we typically get

509
00:31:04,440 --> 00:31:07,640
towards the tail end of our
conversations, we want to have

510
00:31:07,640 --> 00:31:11,240
each of our guests respond to
two questions.

511
00:31:11,240 --> 00:31:15,840
The first of which is was it
coincidence or God?

512
00:31:16,120 --> 00:31:20,720
And you have used divine a
number of different times and

513
00:31:20,720 --> 00:31:23,040
you've talked about God.
So we got a pretty good idea of

514
00:31:23,040 --> 00:31:28,320
how you're going to to answer
this question, but weigh in

515
00:31:28,400 --> 00:31:31,200
either way.
Was it coincidence in terms of

516
00:31:31,200 --> 00:31:33,960
how all of these things have
played out for you, how there

517
00:31:33,960 --> 00:31:38,560
has been such tremendous growth
in in things that we'll call are

518
00:31:38,640 --> 00:31:41,520
are evident meaning reading,
writing and then leading to

519
00:31:41,520 --> 00:31:45,320
authoring or beyond.
But but but more than that, you

520
00:31:45,320 --> 00:31:49,240
know, all of your life, it
sounds like as you've described.

521
00:31:49,760 --> 00:31:53,160
Is that coincidental or a series
of coincidences?

522
00:31:53,560 --> 00:31:58,080
Or is this God at work?
I hope I don't start preaching.

523
00:31:58,400 --> 00:32:01,680
I think you're asking me to do
it in one word, but I'm going to

524
00:32:01,680 --> 00:32:05,480
say it is absolutely God
orchestrated.

525
00:32:05,960 --> 00:32:12,320
His fingerprints are on every
detail of it, even the details

526
00:32:12,320 --> 00:32:19,080
that are a little messy and seem
to be have a little bit of

527
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:22,880
demonic or or or devilish or
enemy Tinders on it.

528
00:32:23,040 --> 00:32:26,680
God has orchestrated even the
mistakes that I've made by me

529
00:32:26,680 --> 00:32:29,920
personally, the mistakes that my
parents made, all of us been

530
00:32:29,920 --> 00:32:33,040
orchestrated to get me to this
point.

531
00:32:33,280 --> 00:32:37,720
And I always look back, even
when I face challenges now,

532
00:32:37,720 --> 00:32:45,680
Mick, they people always ask me
now how, how, how can you do all

533
00:32:45,680 --> 00:32:47,920
that you're doing?
Because I, I do several things

534
00:32:47,920 --> 00:32:50,560
all at the same time.
How can you do all that you're

535
00:32:50,560 --> 00:32:52,600
doing?
And I, I look back over my life,

536
00:32:52,600 --> 00:32:57,480
how the hand of the Lord has
really this been holding me up,

537
00:32:57,800 --> 00:33:03,080
guiding me, orchestrating me.
And, and I could tell you, you

538
00:33:03,080 --> 00:33:05,040
didn't ask me this.
You can cut it out if you want

539
00:33:05,040 --> 00:33:10,440
to.
I, I, I just look at it this to

540
00:33:10,760 --> 00:33:18,840
Nick, but I got my bachelor's
degree and my advisor told me to

541
00:33:19,800 --> 00:33:23,840
go to this job fair and that job
fair, this job fair and do this

542
00:33:24,160 --> 00:33:28,640
and do your resume like this.
And I mean, I was in, I just

543
00:33:28,640 --> 00:33:31,760
didn't feel it, Mick.
I said, that's just not how God

544
00:33:31,760 --> 00:33:34,400
has worked in my life doing all
those types of things.

545
00:33:35,680 --> 00:33:41,280
And, and, and, and I went to one
interview and they didn't hire

546
00:33:41,280 --> 00:33:42,800
me.
So I said, oh, well, maybe she

547
00:33:42,800 --> 00:33:44,760
was right.
Now I went to another interview

548
00:33:45,600 --> 00:33:47,080
at a school that I had already
worked at.

549
00:33:47,080 --> 00:33:49,640
So they do my work ethic.
They knew everything about me

550
00:33:49,640 --> 00:33:52,240
and I had worked at, and I mean,
I had a great reputation in the

551
00:33:52,240 --> 00:33:57,640
school and they didn't hire me.
So I said, Oh well, maybe, but

552
00:33:57,640 --> 00:33:59,680
it was God.
One of the people that I had

553
00:33:59,680 --> 00:34:04,560
worked with before then called
me and said there's a job over

554
00:34:04,560 --> 00:34:06,840
here that's open.
Why don't you come and interview

555
00:34:06,840 --> 00:34:09,520
for it, Nick?
It was the worst interview that

556
00:34:09,520 --> 00:34:12,080
I have ever had in my whole
entire life.

557
00:34:12,120 --> 00:34:15,840
I can't even tell you what they
asked me or what I responded

558
00:34:16,000 --> 00:34:18,840
because it was.
So it was just that bad.

559
00:34:19,320 --> 00:34:25,000
But before I could even get
home, they were calling me for a

560
00:34:25,000 --> 00:34:27,960
job.
Did I say that because it was

561
00:34:27,960 --> 00:34:32,320
the best place for me to land as
a first year teacher because the

562
00:34:32,320 --> 00:34:34,800
students were absolutely
wonderful.

563
00:34:34,960 --> 00:34:36,920
So I could I didn't have to
focus on discipline.

564
00:34:36,920 --> 00:34:40,800
I haven't had a disciplinary
problem since being a being a

565
00:34:40,800 --> 00:34:45,639
teacher and, and, and I could
focus on kind of learning the

566
00:34:45,639 --> 00:34:48,760
school system and learning how
to teach in that role.

567
00:34:49,000 --> 00:34:51,520
It is absolutely amazing.
God orchestrated.

568
00:34:51,520 --> 00:34:56,679
God even orchestrated me when I
was in high school and I there

569
00:34:56,679 --> 00:35:00,360
was a teacher there that told me
to get into the Co-op program.

570
00:35:00,760 --> 00:35:02,280
She said get in the Co-op
program.

571
00:35:02,280 --> 00:35:04,040
So I will go to school half of
the day.

572
00:35:04,040 --> 00:35:06,840
And then I was, she got me to
work at a bank I worked at.

573
00:35:06,840 --> 00:35:14,320
That bank started in 2001.
I was sitting in somebody else's

574
00:35:14,320 --> 00:35:16,560
desk.
One day I was sitting in

575
00:35:16,560 --> 00:35:19,680
somebody else's desk because he
didn't come in that day sitting

576
00:35:19,680 --> 00:35:22,240
at somebody else's desk helping
out on the phones.

577
00:35:23,080 --> 00:35:26,800
Somebody randomly called me.
His name was a Mr. Gates.

578
00:35:27,360 --> 00:35:30,400
Mr. Gates called me and said, do
you want to be an assistant

579
00:35:30,400 --> 00:35:32,640
manager?
At that particular time, I was

580
00:35:32,640 --> 00:35:35,880
just a customer service Rep
training to be a customer

581
00:35:35,880 --> 00:35:39,320
service Rep.
So there was no way I I could be

582
00:35:39,320 --> 00:35:42,080
an assistant manager with how
you're supposed to move up in

583
00:35:42,080 --> 00:35:43,680
the bank.
I said I can't do this.

584
00:35:43,800 --> 00:35:47,120
He said meet me at, I think it
was Clyde's at that time.

585
00:35:47,120 --> 00:35:50,560
He said meet me at Clyde's.
I mean, we had a conversation.

586
00:35:51,040 --> 00:35:52,520
He said this is what I want you
to do.

587
00:35:52,520 --> 00:35:56,200
This is what I want you to say
and and go in there and get this

588
00:35:56,200 --> 00:35:58,440
job.
I did exactly what he told me to

589
00:35:58,440 --> 00:36:01,320
do.
I became an assistant manager.

590
00:36:02,720 --> 00:36:06,840
You're supposed to go from
assistant manager to manager and

591
00:36:06,840 --> 00:36:10,920
then to regional manager.
I went from assistant manager to

592
00:36:11,040 --> 00:36:13,200
regional manager.
I skipped over the manager

593
00:36:13,200 --> 00:36:15,720
position.
At that particular time, I

594
00:36:15,720 --> 00:36:20,520
didn't have a degree and I was
managing at least 50 people who

595
00:36:20,520 --> 00:36:25,040
had degree.
All fifty of them and even more

596
00:36:25,040 --> 00:36:29,680
had more experience degrees have
been to college master's degrees

597
00:36:29,680 --> 00:36:33,080
and I'm managing people.
And I hadn't I had I had no

598
00:36:33,080 --> 00:36:35,520
degree at that time.
I got my degree later on in in

599
00:36:35,520 --> 00:36:39,600
life.
So again, I went the long way

600
00:36:39,600 --> 00:36:42,960
around.
But yes, God has orchestrated

601
00:36:43,440 --> 00:36:47,000
absolutely everything.
That's why I stand in confidence

602
00:36:47,120 --> 00:36:50,840
no matter what I face, even now,
because I know He's going to

603
00:36:50,840 --> 00:36:54,560
bring me through.
Praise God.

604
00:36:54,800 --> 00:36:59,360
Well said, man.
So much there, Tony.

605
00:36:59,600 --> 00:37:00,560
So much I'm all.
Right.

606
00:37:00,560 --> 00:37:06,920
No, no, this is wonderful.
How has your life changed as a

607
00:37:06,920 --> 00:37:11,520
result of all of this?
So I, I will, I'll just go back

608
00:37:11,520 --> 00:37:15,280
to the same point that I, I've
made is my life has changed

609
00:37:15,280 --> 00:37:21,680
because there is a strong faith
and dependence on God coming

610
00:37:21,680 --> 00:37:25,520
through every time I stand in
boldness on faith.

611
00:37:25,520 --> 00:37:28,400
When I, when I feel God is
telling me to do something or

612
00:37:28,400 --> 00:37:34,080
move or, or I, or I, I do it
because I can see from my

613
00:37:34,080 --> 00:37:39,040
testimony of all of the things,
how he has brought me to a

614
00:37:39,040 --> 00:37:42,320
point.
And not only you talk about the,

615
00:37:42,480 --> 00:37:46,600
how it has impacted me, but I
also want to talk about being

616
00:37:46,600 --> 00:37:51,200
obedient and following his, his
footsteps will also be an impact

617
00:37:51,200 --> 00:37:53,800
to others.
Because me being obedient and

618
00:37:53,800 --> 00:37:57,440
me, I'm being even willing to go
through some of the stuff that

619
00:37:57,440 --> 00:37:59,800
I've gone through.
It's staying in and really have

620
00:37:59,840 --> 00:38:02,840
perseverance and not give up
because there are certain points

621
00:38:02,840 --> 00:38:05,240
in my, my story that I could
have gave up, I could have

622
00:38:05,240 --> 00:38:07,440
committed suicide.
Nobody would have blamed me or

623
00:38:07,440 --> 00:38:09,680
whatever because of all the
stuff that had happened in my

624
00:38:09,680 --> 00:38:12,960
life.
But perseverance now has an

625
00:38:13,080 --> 00:38:17,120
impact on hundreds and hundreds.
And I will probably even go with

626
00:38:17,280 --> 00:38:19,640
thousands of people who have
come through my church, who have

627
00:38:19,640 --> 00:38:22,520
come through my ministry, who
has been impacted by my teaching

628
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,080
and preaching.
And also I was at one point in

629
00:38:25,080 --> 00:38:27,240
time wanting to be in full time
ministry.

630
00:38:28,440 --> 00:38:33,120
I wanted to you know this do
mystery and the Lord spoke to me

631
00:38:33,120 --> 00:38:38,120
very clearly and he said I have
grace you to do both and the

632
00:38:38,120 --> 00:38:41,480
grace that is on my life in the
school system.

633
00:38:41,480 --> 00:38:46,440
The impact that I'm making for
the children has been evident

634
00:38:46,440 --> 00:38:50,080
with them.
So it's not only impact my life,

635
00:38:50,080 --> 00:38:54,960
but my impact outside the four
walls of the church have been

636
00:38:55,520 --> 00:38:59,800
great in the school system.
And I haven't, you know, I

637
00:38:59,800 --> 00:39:02,760
haven't preached to anybody.
I haven't said Jesus to anybody.

638
00:39:02,920 --> 00:39:05,680
I've just allowed my light to
shine.

639
00:39:06,040 --> 00:39:09,680
And if I didn't follow the
leading of the Holy Spirit to be

640
00:39:09,680 --> 00:39:13,880
dual in him sustain me, there
will be a missing part that

641
00:39:13,880 --> 00:39:18,200
these these kids are getting
from, from the ministry that I'm

642
00:39:18,200 --> 00:39:21,560
serving even in the school
system, just by being me and who

643
00:39:21,560 --> 00:39:24,840
I am.
Yeah, absolutely.

644
00:39:25,320 --> 00:39:28,560
And there'd be disobedience as
well in that even what you just

645
00:39:28,560 --> 00:39:31,800
described.
OK, I want to explore one other

646
00:39:31,800 --> 00:39:34,680
thing here.
You have, you have alluded to it

647
00:39:34,680 --> 00:39:37,240
a couple different times and one
time even spoke about it

648
00:39:37,240 --> 00:39:41,000
directly.
And that is, is I'm not quite

649
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,200
sure Tony, how to frame this up.
OK.

650
00:39:43,680 --> 00:39:49,800
But essentially what I'm hearing
you say is chaos, the

651
00:39:49,800 --> 00:39:54,240
brokenness, the, the, the
rubble, the challenges, whatever

652
00:39:54,240 --> 00:39:57,520
we're going to call it, various
different points in your life,

653
00:39:57,600 --> 00:40:03,320
even going back to basically the
beginning, you're saying, not

654
00:40:03,320 --> 00:40:06,160
only did God all right, I want
to, I don't want to put words in

655
00:40:06,160 --> 00:40:08,080
your mouth.
So I want to clarify this, OK.

656
00:40:08,880 --> 00:40:14,240
I think this is really good for
us in general as Christians to

657
00:40:14,760 --> 00:40:18,320
talk this through.
To think I'm hearing you say

658
00:40:18,320 --> 00:40:24,840
that not only was God certainly
involved in it and His hand was

659
00:40:24,840 --> 00:40:29,840
on you, but that some of it may
have even been directly part of

660
00:40:29,840 --> 00:40:35,960
His plan, despite the fact that
it may look like to the outsider

661
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:42,320
sin and or brokenness.
Let's just explore that a little

662
00:40:42,320 --> 00:40:44,560
more.
I'm not trying to put words in

663
00:40:44,560 --> 00:40:47,280
your mouth.
No, no, no, no, absolutely.

664
00:40:47,280 --> 00:40:52,920
And even if, let's say, even if
it was the devil, I say God is

665
00:40:52,920 --> 00:40:57,160
in charge of the devil's plans
to that's how I would, I would,

666
00:40:57,160 --> 00:41:00,240
I would phrase it.
If we look at the book of Job,

667
00:41:00,360 --> 00:41:03,240
we, we can clearly see that in
my church, we just finished

668
00:41:03,240 --> 00:41:05,600
studying the book of Job.
I mean, we went through it very

669
00:41:05,720 --> 00:41:10,720
painstakingly slow and at the
beginning when stuff started to

670
00:41:10,720 --> 00:41:15,240
happen and, and with Job, Job
couldn't see it and his friends

671
00:41:15,240 --> 00:41:17,640
couldn't see it.
The outsiders could see it.

672
00:41:17,920 --> 00:41:22,480
But God was even in
orchestrating or not, not

673
00:41:22,480 --> 00:41:26,560
necessarily orchestrate, but had
the the jurisdiction over what

674
00:41:26,560 --> 00:41:31,080
the enemy was doing.
And he knew that at the end of

675
00:41:31,080 --> 00:41:33,680
it, you know, joke was going to
be okay.

676
00:41:34,000 --> 00:41:37,840
So absolutely.
And I stand on that now, even

677
00:41:37,840 --> 00:41:42,880
when stuff starts to break out
and sometimes I'm human, it'll

678
00:41:42,880 --> 00:41:46,760
take me a minute to get there.
But when stuff starts to happen,

679
00:41:46,760 --> 00:41:49,480
that's crazy in my life.
I said, oh, you know, God's at

680
00:41:49,480 --> 00:41:50,720
work.
Something's he's gone.

681
00:41:51,040 --> 00:41:53,400
He's he's doing something.
There's something that needs to

682
00:41:53,400 --> 00:41:54,720
move.
There's something that needs to

683
00:41:54,720 --> 00:41:56,080
change.
There's something that needs to

684
00:41:56,080 --> 00:41:58,600
shift.
So when, when trouble and and

685
00:41:58,600 --> 00:42:02,800
trials and and different stuff
going going on in my life, I

686
00:42:02,800 --> 00:42:07,000
just believe I say God is trying
to either shift me somewhere.

687
00:42:07,120 --> 00:42:09,480
He's trying to teach me
something, he's trying to do

688
00:42:09,480 --> 00:42:12,960
something.
So I have now started to embrace

689
00:42:13,400 --> 00:42:16,880
challenges.
There's a scripture now.

690
00:42:16,880 --> 00:42:18,760
Hopefully it'll it'll come back
to me.

691
00:42:19,040 --> 00:42:22,640
It it, it talks in, in terms of,
hey, here it is.

692
00:42:23,520 --> 00:42:26,520
James, I believe said it says
count it all joy, my brother,

693
00:42:26,720 --> 00:42:31,360
when you face various trials.
That is one hard thing to do

694
00:42:31,360 --> 00:42:33,880
when you're immature Christian.
And even if you're mature

695
00:42:33,880 --> 00:42:35,720
Christian, that's hard to do
when you're going through

696
00:42:35,720 --> 00:42:38,320
challenges.
But I've gotten to a maturity in

697
00:42:38,320 --> 00:42:42,240
my Christian walk and I, I don't
do it perfectly, but I do, I do

698
00:42:42,240 --> 00:42:46,360
do it often to say not going to
worry about that, not going to

699
00:42:46,360 --> 00:42:50,640
get upset about that.
God is going to use that for his

700
00:42:50,640 --> 00:42:55,000
glory to be able to bring me
somewhere or shift me somewhere

701
00:42:55,240 --> 00:42:59,560
or bring somebody else in my
life or whatever it may be.

702
00:42:59,760 --> 00:43:02,800
Because that has been the
testimony.

703
00:43:03,160 --> 00:43:10,360
There has never been a time.
That's why to Mick, when I have

704
00:43:10,360 --> 00:43:13,880
family members, I have a host
cross section of my family who

705
00:43:13,880 --> 00:43:17,200
are Jehovah's Witness and I, I
give a big shout out to them

706
00:43:17,200 --> 00:43:20,600
because they are resilient about
trying to get me to convert.

707
00:43:22,120 --> 00:43:25,880
And they know for 41 years I've
been with this way, but they

708
00:43:25,880 --> 00:43:29,600
still try to get me to convert.
And I have had to tell them

709
00:43:29,600 --> 00:43:32,120
several times.
We say this in the, in the

710
00:43:32,120 --> 00:43:34,400
African American children a lot.
I don't know if you all said it

711
00:43:34,840 --> 00:43:37,680
and, and we say you can't make
me doubt him.

712
00:43:37,720 --> 00:43:42,520
I know too much about there's
nothing at this particular time

713
00:43:42,760 --> 00:43:45,040
I can't change.
There would be nothing that can

714
00:43:45,040 --> 00:43:48,960
make me doubt, nothing that
makes me turn around because

715
00:43:49,880 --> 00:43:53,440
it's just been again, God
orchestrating different pieces.

716
00:43:53,440 --> 00:43:56,880
And I don't sometimes as Joe
didn't and Joe's friends didn't,

717
00:43:57,240 --> 00:43:59,080
don't understand it at the
particular time.

718
00:43:59,080 --> 00:44:03,920
But if you wait and you trust
him, he will make all of this

719
00:44:04,080 --> 00:44:09,240
stuff come together and work out
for yours, your families and,

720
00:44:09,240 --> 00:44:11,880
you know, your generational
good.

721
00:44:13,960 --> 00:44:17,720
Tony, thank you for dropping
that clarity.

722
00:44:20,080 --> 00:44:26,400
I'm thinking as I was asking you
that question initially of the

723
00:44:26,400 --> 00:44:31,280
Israelites and their exile into
Babylon.

724
00:44:32,280 --> 00:44:39,960
And that was ultimately God's
design as a result of them not

725
00:44:39,960 --> 00:44:44,000
paying attention to him of of
ultimately them breaking his

726
00:44:44,000 --> 00:44:46,800
first commandment to them have
no other gods before me.

727
00:44:47,120 --> 00:44:50,080
So that became the consequence
to bring them back.

728
00:44:50,360 --> 00:44:52,880
And he was very clear, as you
know, through the prophets, that

729
00:44:52,880 --> 00:44:58,800
he was planning to restore them,
but that was as a direct result

730
00:44:58,800 --> 00:45:03,120
ultimately of their sin.
In your situation, I don't think

731
00:45:03,120 --> 00:45:07,400
we could say that.
And so it's so enriching to hear

732
00:45:07,400 --> 00:45:12,960
you talk about the jurisdiction
that God has no matter what.

733
00:45:13,160 --> 00:45:15,560
So often times we hear that is
God is sovereign.

734
00:45:15,680 --> 00:45:19,880
But it was neat to hear you say
he has a jurisdiction over the

735
00:45:19,880 --> 00:45:24,360
devil and then reference Job
because that's exactly what is

736
00:45:24,360 --> 00:45:27,600
occurring.
And for those that aren't overly

737
00:45:27,600 --> 00:45:32,680
familiar with the story of Job,
the devil and the devil asks

738
00:45:32,680 --> 00:45:38,560
essentially permission to do
this to Job, to bring all kinds

739
00:45:38,560 --> 00:45:41,720
of calamity to Job, and God says
yes.

740
00:45:43,280 --> 00:45:48,800
And to your point, there is
jurisdiction there that God has

741
00:45:48,960 --> 00:45:52,160
over him.
Let's make let's make it clear

742
00:45:52,160 --> 00:45:54,000
Mick.
Not only did God say yes, but

743
00:45:54,000 --> 00:45:56,400
God recommended Joe for the
Trump.

744
00:45:57,600 --> 00:46:00,760
That is true.
And when we were in Bible study

745
00:46:00,760 --> 00:46:02,480
talking about that, I was a
little upset.

746
00:46:02,480 --> 00:46:06,200
I'm still still partnering with
that, you know, cuz like, why

747
00:46:06,200 --> 00:46:09,000
not recommend somebody who's
sitting or recommend somebody

748
00:46:09,000 --> 00:46:11,160
who's, you know, not that you're
recommending them for trouble,

749
00:46:11,160 --> 00:46:15,040
but he recommends the blameless,
the righteous man, you know, So

750
00:46:15,760 --> 00:46:20,160
a lot of times when we go
through stuff and we always say,

751
00:46:20,160 --> 00:46:23,600
well, what did I do?
Sometimes you've done something

752
00:46:23,600 --> 00:46:26,480
right and been recommended for
God.

753
00:46:27,040 --> 00:46:30,440
I tell my praise team this and I
said, you know, watch what

754
00:46:30,440 --> 00:46:33,680
you're saying because they sing
a song, Lord, if you can use

755
00:46:33,680 --> 00:46:36,080
anything, Lord, you can use me.
They sing that song.

756
00:46:36,080 --> 00:46:39,520
And I asked and I asked them
when you all sing that I know

757
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:42,800
you all thinking about
preaching, teaching, singing,

758
00:46:43,000 --> 00:46:46,120
playing the instruments, doing
something positive for God.

759
00:46:46,320 --> 00:46:50,360
I I get all of that, but what if
God wants to use you to show?

760
00:46:50,440 --> 00:46:54,160
How do you handle trouble?
And that's the part that we

761
00:46:54,200 --> 00:46:59,680
often times miss is sometimes
God will use you to show other

762
00:46:59,680 --> 00:47:04,680
people how you handle and and
how you respond to trouble.

763
00:47:04,800 --> 00:47:08,880
Now I am in no wise saying that
I want to be recommended for

764
00:47:08,880 --> 00:47:10,280
that.
But.

765
00:47:11,120 --> 00:47:16,160
Sometimes He does do that to us
and you got to be understanding

766
00:47:16,160 --> 00:47:18,880
of that.
He, if you trust him, that he

767
00:47:18,880 --> 00:47:21,960
has it all planned out from
beginning to the end.

768
00:47:22,600 --> 00:47:26,160
Tony, that is so good.
That is so good.

769
00:47:26,240 --> 00:47:28,920
Amen.
God is good.

770
00:47:29,880 --> 00:47:33,960
God is good.
Tony, it has been a real

771
00:47:33,960 --> 00:47:37,800
pleasure hearing your story,
chatting through some other

772
00:47:37,800 --> 00:47:42,480
complexities about it as well.
You've mentioned the books, you

773
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,320
talked about each of their
titles.

774
00:47:45,600 --> 00:47:50,600
When is the new book coming out
and how can people get more

775
00:47:50,600 --> 00:47:53,080
information about it and get it
in their hands?

776
00:47:53,640 --> 00:47:56,720
Hopefully I'll have it out by
the end of the year just because

777
00:47:56,720 --> 00:48:00,400
I'm getting ready to go back to
school, school session and it'll

778
00:48:00,400 --> 00:48:02,880
slow up the writing process, but
hopefully be at the end of the

779
00:48:02,880 --> 00:48:05,560
year.
But you can contact me or get

780
00:48:05,560 --> 00:48:08,600
any of my books on my website.
And it's just my name spelled

781
00:48:08,600 --> 00:48:13,480
out.
Tony Ray RAY smith.com,

782
00:48:13,480 --> 00:48:16,760
tonyraysmith.com.
It has all of my books there.

783
00:48:17,360 --> 00:48:21,400
If you type that into Amazon,
all of them are there on Amazon

784
00:48:22,320 --> 00:48:28,080
there for anybody to pick, pick
up, purchase or respond.

785
00:48:28,080 --> 00:48:32,160
We'd love to hear any comments
from any of your viewers on that

786
00:48:32,160 --> 00:48:34,360
website.
Yeah, awesome.

787
00:48:34,480 --> 00:48:36,880
Tony.
Ray smith.com got it.

788
00:48:37,480 --> 00:48:39,440
And we'll make sure that we link
to that as well.

789
00:48:39,680 --> 00:48:43,600
Tony, absolute pleasure.
Thank you a bunch for sharing

790
00:48:43,600 --> 00:48:48,040
your story here and when you
look it's powered by these first

791
00:48:48,040 --> 00:48:51,200
hand accounts.
Man have a great 1 so genuinely

792
00:48:51,200 --> 00:48:53,280
appreciate.
And let me say thank you as

793
00:48:53,280 --> 00:48:54,600
well.
I know I took you on a roller

794
00:48:54,600 --> 00:48:57,440
coaster ride around the
neighborhood, but thank you so

795
00:48:57,440 --> 00:49:02,080
much for allowing me to share my
story in this navigating way

796
00:49:02,080 --> 00:49:04,520
that I did.
Yeah, genuinely man, that

797
00:49:04,560 --> 00:49:12,840
pleasant.
Was it coincidence or God?

798
00:49:13,440 --> 00:49:18,120
You decide for yourself, but I
believe you just heard a story

799
00:49:18,120 --> 00:49:22,080
for His glory.
When You Look is powered by

800
00:49:22,080 --> 00:49:25,600
stories just like this and yours
could be next.

801
00:49:26,000 --> 00:49:30,200
Go to whenyoulook.com/be a guest
or use the link in the

802
00:49:30,200 --> 00:49:34,200
description below.
Drop us a comment and share this

803
00:49:34,200 --> 00:49:36,280
episode with somebody that needs
it.

804
00:49:36,840 --> 00:49:41,080
Until next time, thanks a bunch
for listening and watching, and

805
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:41,880
God bless.