From Attorney to Bedridden to Widowed…Yet Still Singing | Lara Silverman, J.D. | 041

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If I weren't a Christian going
through eight years of your

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brain spinning like you, I look
great now and I'm not trying to

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play a pretty party, but it's
very painful day in, day out.

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And so if I didn't have the hope
of Christ and that joy that He

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gives me every day that He's
walking with me, I don't think I

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would make it from an emotional
standpoint, no matter how much

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therapy you go through.
Welcome to When You Look, where

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ordinary people share their
extraordinary experiences and

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you get to decide was it
coincidence or God?

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Laura, welcome to When You Look.
So Great to have you on the

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show.
Thank you so much, Mick.

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I'm just so excited to be on and
I'm just humbled that you're,

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you know, you agreed to have me
on as a guest.

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Oh, an absolute pleasure.
I am very excited for the story

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that God has written through
your life to be shared here.

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And we're going to get to that
in just a second.

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But everybody's got to hold
their horses because we've got

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to get to know you a little bit
first.

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So tell us a little bit about
yourself, Laura.

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Sure.
Thanks so much, Mick.

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So, you know, I, I'm a
Christian.

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I grew up in an Armenian
evangelical home.

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My grandfather actually was a
pastor in the Middle East before

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my family immigrated over.
So I was raised, you know, in a

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Christian home.
And I didn't have much exposure

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to suffering, you know, during,
you know, my childhood.

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Thank, you know, praise the
Lord, my childhood and I would

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say, you know, through until I
was age 30 and we can get into

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that, but just by background,
I'm a lawyer.

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I'm a former lawyer.
I went to Stanford law school

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and I you know, I really loved
every second of it.

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I always knew I wanted to be a
lawyer.

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I love yapping.
I guess that's why I'm here

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today.
But but I, you know, I, I just

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like advocacy.
I like performing, I like just

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communicating ideas through
speech.

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So, and, and yeah, I mean, I
loved the practice of law.

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You know, God gave me 5, you
know, pretty fruitful years.

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I worked at a big law firm doing
antitrust and intellectual

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property.
And then basically I at the

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start of my dream job, I, I
wanted to be a federal

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prosecutor sort of, you know,
through college.

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I had done mock trial
competitions, and I was always

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interested in criminal justice.
And on the I applied and I get

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this position in downtown San
Francisco, which was quite a,

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you know, I don't want to say
prestigious because it sounds

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pompous, but it's a position
that's very difficult to get in

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the legal world.
So I had worked my tail off and

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I really felt like the Lord was
calling me to this.

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OK.
It was one of those like, all

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right, Lord, you open the door,
I get the job.

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And Long story short, on the
second week of the job, I fell

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mysteriously I'll with this rare
neurological illness.

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And it's been 8 years since that
day.

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And I don't know if you want,
you know, I can sort of tell the

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full story now or if you want to
ask any questions.

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But you know, that's why I'm on
today.

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Absolutely, Absolutely.
Yeah.

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So appreciate that back story.
Let's let's walk right into

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things as they occurred for you.
Sure, so basically, as you can

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imagine, I was very confused at
that point in time.

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I had been healthy as a horse
the 1st 30 years of my life

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theory, you know, type A, you
know, go getter.

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All right, career is my
identity.

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Like yeah, I love Jesus, but
like you're going to put me on

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the Supreme Court, right Lord,
like this is your will, you

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know, like like prideful 30 year
old.

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And the only thing left on my
Christian checklist, if you

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will, was like, you know, the
sexy spouse it, you know,

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forgive my was, you know,
praying for a godly husband,

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right, I'm trying.
I'm being facetious.

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And so that was sort of the one
thing left.

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I felt like the Lord had been
blessing me and so, but and yet

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here I am the second week of the
job, I fall, I'll the doctors

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threw, you know, 10 diagnosis at
me.

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We, you know, Mris, CAT scans,
you name it.

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I mean, we were my family and I,
you know, I live at home with my

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parents and it was very
difficult to understand what the

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illness was.
Now I will tell you, we still

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don't have a diagnosis 8 years
in, but my illness stems from

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the connection between my ears
and my brain.

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So in other words, you can't
tell right now because my

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neurological illness is sort of
a silent one that you can't see.

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But right now, because I'm
sitting up, the whole world is

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spinning around me.
And as you can imagine, it's a

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very uncomfortable sensation.
It's all so painful, like just

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there's so many things going on
in my brain.

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And basically what happened was
the doctors, you know, they just

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didn't know what's going on.
We tried, you know, maybe 5

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pharmaceuticals that first ten
months.

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And at a certain point the
United States Attorney's office

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was like, we can't extend your
leave longer.

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Like we just hired you, are you
going to come back or not?

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And I'm telling you, Mick, it
was like the day before I had to

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resign or not.
And it was clear that I was not

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not only not getting better, I
was getting worse.

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And I was in tears.
And I open up my Christian

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devotional app.
It's called Daily Streams in the

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Desert.
And the message of the day was,

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are you confused?
Because it feels like the Lord

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has opened the door only to
close it.

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Do you feel cornered in a way
that just doesn't make any

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sense?
And I'm like in tears.

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And the message was, you trust
the Lord blindly when you can't

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understand what he's doing.
And, you know, he will walk by

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you through the most severe of
testings.

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And I was like, my sister called
me was like, did you read the

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daily streams today?
And I was like, yeah, I read it.

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So the next day I emailed the US
Attorney's office.

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I, you know, hand in my
resignation.

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And but I'm trying to testify to
your audience today that the

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Lord was just the Holy Spirit
was with me.

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I mean, a career loss.
It's like kind of like, who

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cares when I look back after all
this suffering?

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But like, at that time, it was a
very demoralizing thing because

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it was like, I don't get this.
I mean, I'm sure that's how

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Abraham felt, right?
Like when the Lord told him to

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leave his homeland like God
sometimes or to sacrifice Isaac.

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I mean, God calls us to do some
strange things that might not

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make sense from an earthly
perspective.

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But anyway, so that was the kick
off of my journey.

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And from there things went from
bad to worse.

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And so I don't know if you want
to ask anything or if I should

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keep going.
No, let's keep rolling.

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So.
We'll definitely follow up with

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questions.
OK, so basically from there I

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was strictly bedridden on a bed.
It was my mom's master bed in

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her bedroom for three years
without being able to move.

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So in other words, I'm talking
strictly bedridden on a bedpan

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with my mother nursing me.
OK.

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And luckily, she was a former RN
from years ago from Lebanon, you

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know, when she was younger.
But basically, I was completely,

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I mean, the illness was
completely debilitating.

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So in other words, the world
around me was and still is in

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fact, spinning non-stop.
It's a chronic kind of pain.

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And but at that time, whenever I
sat up, my blood pressure also

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dropped, which meant that I
could not sit up.

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So I was not functional.
In other words, I was just

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completely dependent on others
for every need.

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We're talking bathing on a bed.
We're talking, you know, we

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don't want to go into the
details, but I thought my whole

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church was praying for me.
I was hospitalized twice.

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I lost for 36 lbs.
I mean, I could get you have to

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read my memoir because just the
amount of you can imagine what

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my parents and I went through.
But the long and short of it is

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I tried maybe 150 treatments,
OK, over the course of three

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years and nothing worked.
And it came a point where I, it

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was like 1 dead end after
another.

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And it was like, Lord, I mean,
you can imagine, Nick, how much

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my faith was tested.
And frankly, I'm ashamed of how

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I handled a lot of that, you
know, just with the anger and

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the bitterness, like I have to
be honest because what's the

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point in lying?
Like I have gone my journey is 1

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where it's like, you know, I am
I, I never walked away, but I

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had extreme anger at the Lord.
Like, why have you?

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I mean, I never said why have
you abandoned me?

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Because I felt God so closely in
like every.

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I don't know how to explain it,
whether it was a coincidental

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verse or my dad reads me the
Bible and then a friend text me

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the same verse at night and my
mom reads it to me.

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And I'm like, that's the Holy
Spirit people like I can't.

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He never abandoned me in that
sense.

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But I did feel abandoned only in
the sense of you're not

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answering my prayers the way I
want.

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Like where is the yes, why are
you leading me down dead ends?

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But so it's sort of this
testimony.

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I think my story is a testimony
really of God clinging on to me

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even as I'm I'm not resisting
him, but just accusing him.

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You know, kind of like how Job,
you know, at the beginning he

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said the Lord has given and
taken away blessed be the name

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of the Lord.
But as to the boils, you know,

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the different trials, you know,
as it got worse and worse and

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Satan kept afflicting him, even
Joel kind of, you know, started

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cursing the day he was born.
He never cursed God.

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So he's like an example for all
of us.

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But he did he did.
He has some lines.

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I mean, I love Joe because I'm a
lawyer and there's this line in

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Job where he says I I want to
face my accuser and he's talking

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to God.
He's saying, why are you doing

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this?
If you are good and you love me,

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what have I done wrong?
So anyway, I digressed, but what

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I mean, what I was saying was
I've gone through a very intense

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spiritual battle, but I've also
felt God's presence.

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So clearly, like Psalm 34 says
the Lord is near to the broken

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hearted.
And I'm telling you, I am a

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solid defense witness for that
verse.

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I love how all my metaphors are
legal, like in the sense, no, I

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mean seriously, like when you're
not suffering, like who you read

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these Bible verses and you know,
it's great, it's comforting, but

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it's like, I don't think you
actually, at least I was selfish

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and I didn't really meditate on,
you know, the suffering versus

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like, until you're in that pit,
you don't really, it doesn't

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resonate as much.
And and I think it was Martin

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Luther who said that suffering
is fast track seminary school

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and I couldn't agree more.
I mean, don't you?

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It's like you just you
experience it by learning it

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like.
Definitely changes things for

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sure.
Changes.

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Yeah, it like makes you
experience the Lord's promises

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and ironically it's in the fire
rather than in the good times

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like.
So anyway, Long story short,

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three years into the bed, I feel
like I get a strong word from

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the Holy Spirit that I'm calling
you to acceptance of this.

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And you can imagine like after
trying 150 therapies and all of

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this, and it, it honestly was a
mercy in some sense because it

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was like, OK, I like, now I
understand why you didn't put

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your hand on any of these
treatments.

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But at the same time, you can
imagine how demoralizing it was.

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And, and it's interesting
because right around the time he

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called me to acceptance was
around the time that I was

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starting to try to sit up again.
I mean, this was after I had

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been hospitalized twice.
I mean, we had consulted doctors

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in the UK, this, that.
But basically as I sat up at

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that time, almost basically by a
miracle, at least my blood

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pressure wasn't dropping.
So I was still sensing the

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spinning.
But that one change allowed me

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to try walking again so that
when I sit up, I can actually,

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you know, I don't know how to
explain it to people who don't

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have Vertigo, but it's like my
body was able to sit up And I

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was 90 lbs at this point.
You can imagine like I'm a 30.

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I mean, now I'm a 38.
I mean, at that point I was a 35

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year old woman.
So you can imagine like just all

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of the things that my parents
and I went through.

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But at that time when the Lord
called me to acceptance, I

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started, I mean, I, I, it was
sort of a path where I was like,

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okay, Lord, whoa.
I thought you heal everyone.

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I thought this is just a season.
I thought that if you wait long

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00:11:39,920 --> 00:11:43,240
enough, pray hard enough, be a
good Christian, this, that you

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will heal.
And, and yet obviously we don't

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follow a prosperity gospel.
We follow a take up your cross

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gospel, you know, not a take up
your spot, a gospel, you know.

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And so it has been a very, since
that word from the Lord, it's

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been 3 1/2 years and I've been
upright and walking like, you

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00:12:01,760 --> 00:12:04,920
know, throughout the day.
At this point, basically none of

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the symptoms have changed.
So whether I'm laying down or

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sitting up, like right now
during this podcast, the world

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is spinning around me.
And actually, in fact, after

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this podcast, I'm just going to
slam right back down.

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So I get up, I put the makeup
on, whatever, and then I slam

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00:12:19,680 --> 00:12:22,000
back down and I have to rest
because this is too much

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00:12:22,000 --> 00:12:24,960
stimulation.
But the Lord has sustained me.

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00:12:25,720 --> 00:12:29,480
And it's like this thing where,
you know, Christians in my

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00:12:29,480 --> 00:12:32,280
church have given me pushback on
what do you mean the Lord won't

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heal you?
The Lord is good.

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The Lord would never tell you
he's not going to heal you.

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And you're just losing faith.
And I'm telling you like that

247
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has been very hard to hear.
And I think it, it, it's just I,

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I'm not like blaming others, but
I think our theology can get

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mixed up even in churches that
don't believe the false

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00:12:47,320 --> 00:12:50,680
prosperity gospel.
But it's like we want to believe

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God is good and he is, but that
doesn't mean he heals on this

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00:12:54,720 --> 00:12:59,160
side of eternity for all of us.
So anyway, it's been it.

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It kind of reminds me of Paul's
chronic thorn in the flesh.

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You know, it's like the he
bagged 3 times.

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00:13:04,800 --> 00:13:08,960
Lord knows I've begged 1000
times and yet God told Paul, my

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grace is sufficient for you, for
my power is made perfect in

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weakness.
And I have seen that in my life.

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Would I be able to sit up while
I'm spinning and feeling super

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weak right now, frankly.
And yet because I'm enjoying

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this conversation with my
brother in Christ, the Lord is

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00:13:24,120 --> 00:13:27,280
equipping me to sit here and do
hand gestures as if I'm a public

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00:13:27,280 --> 00:13:29,920
speaker, you know, and to just
do this.

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00:13:29,920 --> 00:13:31,920
That's Christ's power, not my
own.

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So I mean, I have felt the truth
every praise the Lord like I

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00:13:36,560 --> 00:13:40,800
have felt the truth in all of
these verses that frankly never

266
00:13:40,800 --> 00:13:44,160
meant anything to me before.
So and now there is a plot twist

267
00:13:44,160 --> 00:13:45,960
in my story.
So unless you have any

268
00:13:45,960 --> 00:13:48,320
questions, I'll just.
Keep on going.

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00:13:49,200 --> 00:13:52,480
All right, so basically right
around the time that I was

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00:13:52,480 --> 00:13:55,560
starting to sit up just for
small amounts of, you know, 20

271
00:13:55,560 --> 00:13:58,840
minutes, you know, 10 minutes,
whatever my brain can tolerate,

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00:13:59,480 --> 00:14:01,880
the Lord brings this man into my
Life, OK.

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00:14:02,920 --> 00:14:06,160
And he was this acquaintance
from church, OK, His name was

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00:14:06,160 --> 00:14:09,320
Matt.
And, you know, I was casual like

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00:14:09,320 --> 00:14:11,080
I, you know, we were just
friends.

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00:14:11,400 --> 00:14:14,240
And he calls my mom and says,
your daughter's been suffering.

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00:14:14,240 --> 00:14:16,280
And they're the whole Armenian
community is has been praying

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00:14:16,280 --> 00:14:17,880
for her for four years.
Enough is enough.

279
00:14:17,880 --> 00:14:19,320
I'd like to come visit her in
person.

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00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:20,440
I'm a Deacon.
I'd like to.

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00:14:20,880 --> 00:14:23,800
So he waltzes into my room.
I'm on that bed, and he sits

282
00:14:23,800 --> 00:14:26,840
next to me.
And the twist is that he had

283
00:14:26,840 --> 00:14:30,120
just been diagnosed with
terminal cancer, a very rare

284
00:14:30,120 --> 00:14:32,120
form of intestinal cancer
himself.

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00:14:32,880 --> 00:14:36,480
And so he and he had suffered a
lot during his life because he

286
00:14:36,480 --> 00:14:39,120
had cancer as a kid, a different
kind of cancer.

287
00:14:39,360 --> 00:14:42,720
So this was his second, you
know, sort of run with a very

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00:14:42,760 --> 00:14:47,400
scary thing in this lifetime.
So he waltzes in and he met

289
00:14:47,400 --> 00:14:51,320
basically, he was a biochemical
engineering PhD Brilliant.

290
00:14:51,520 --> 00:14:54,400
He was our lay youth pastor.
In other words, he didn't have a

291
00:14:54,400 --> 00:14:56,880
seminary degree, but he would
preach from the pulpit when

292
00:14:56,880 --> 00:14:59,520
Pastor Calvin needed him because
he was the youth group leader.

293
00:14:59,680 --> 00:15:02,800
He would make these like Bible
devotionals for the youth group

294
00:15:02,800 --> 00:15:06,040
kids, like using Batman and Lord
of the Rings and all these Bible

295
00:15:06,040 --> 00:15:08,320
metaphors and analogies.
And the kids ate it up.

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00:15:08,880 --> 00:15:11,600
So he he he was also a
missionary to Haiti, by the way,

297
00:15:11,600 --> 00:15:13,400
and a medical diagnostics
professor.

298
00:15:13,400 --> 00:15:17,880
So this guy, he waltzes into my
room and I'm like, Hey, who are

299
00:15:17,880 --> 00:15:19,640
you?
He gives me a theology.

300
00:15:20,040 --> 00:15:23,120
No, I mean, we had we knew each
other from church, But I said,

301
00:15:23,120 --> 00:15:26,360
who are you in the sense of he
was giving me a theology of

302
00:15:26,360 --> 00:15:28,520
suffering.
And the Lord knew I needed that

303
00:15:28,520 --> 00:15:31,000
at that time because I was so
bitter at the Lord.

304
00:15:31,000 --> 00:15:32,560
Like, what do you mean
acceptance?

305
00:15:32,560 --> 00:15:33,920
Lord, I'm not going to accept
this.

306
00:15:33,920 --> 00:15:38,120
Like, I have fought to heal and
Matt waltzes in and get switches

307
00:15:38,120 --> 00:15:40,720
my whole theology.
I mean, you're seeing me at the

308
00:15:40,720 --> 00:15:43,960
end of eight years having
changed my theology completely.

309
00:15:43,960 --> 00:15:45,760
And Matt was a huge part of
that.

310
00:15:45,800 --> 00:15:48,640
OK.
So he comes in and I'm like, who

311
00:15:48,640 --> 00:15:50,400
are you?
And why are you not bitter at

312
00:15:50,400 --> 00:15:53,320
God for giving you a terminal
illness at age 36?

313
00:15:53,320 --> 00:15:56,000
Like, why are you?
I just don't understand.

314
00:15:56,000 --> 00:15:57,360
Like it because he was like, you
know what?

315
00:15:57,360 --> 00:15:59,880
God's will be done.
I'm going to fight this cancer.

316
00:15:59,880 --> 00:16:03,280
But if it's his will at the end
of the day, and I can't tell,

317
00:16:03,280 --> 00:16:08,200
you make like it makes no sense.
But after about 8 visits, we

318
00:16:08,200 --> 00:16:11,640
literally just realized that we
were falling in love.

319
00:16:11,680 --> 00:16:14,040
OK.
Like, and I know your audience

320
00:16:14,040 --> 00:16:15,680
is probably like, what's wrong
with these people?

321
00:16:15,680 --> 00:16:17,960
I mean, I'm bedridden.
He's a cancer patient.

322
00:16:17,960 --> 00:16:21,000
Like, I don't know if it was
like a nerd, you know, Florence

323
00:16:21,000 --> 00:16:23,680
Nightingale effect or whatever.
It was like we're both

324
00:16:23,680 --> 00:16:26,600
comforting each other.
You know, he did have a killer

325
00:16:26,600 --> 00:16:29,400
smile.
So I will mention that, but I'm

326
00:16:29,400 --> 00:16:31,240
teasing.
I mean, basically we prayed a

327
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:34,360
lot about it because it was
like, why do we have feelings?

328
00:16:34,360 --> 00:16:35,920
You know, why are we teasing
each other?

329
00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,480
Why does this feel right?
Why does this feel like it's

330
00:16:38,480 --> 00:16:41,840
from the Lord?
We prayed and we prayed and we

331
00:16:41,840 --> 00:16:43,440
prayed.
Like, is this wise?

332
00:16:43,640 --> 00:16:45,880
The heart is deceitful.
Like, what are we doing?

333
00:16:45,880 --> 00:16:49,840
Matt might die, but I'm telling
you, Mick, the Lord, even with

334
00:16:49,840 --> 00:16:52,240
all the confusion, I mean, you
have to read my memoir because I

335
00:16:52,240 --> 00:16:55,880
was brutally honest, but the
Lord met us in that and

336
00:16:55,880 --> 00:16:59,680
explicitly gave me a word.
I, I don't think he ever spoke

337
00:16:59,680 --> 00:17:02,880
to Matt in this way.
But to me one day I had a word

338
00:17:02,880 --> 00:17:05,240
from the Lord, take this joy in
your grief.

339
00:17:05,800 --> 00:17:09,839
And I was like, OK, Lord, like,
wow, like it was just this one

340
00:17:09,839 --> 00:17:12,640
week where all these Christian
friends were just texting me the

341
00:17:12,640 --> 00:17:14,839
word joy in connection with
dating Matt.

342
00:17:14,839 --> 00:17:17,680
And I was like, OK, you're
giving me a green light.

343
00:17:17,680 --> 00:17:21,839
And and let's be honest, like I
had been single for all my 20s

344
00:17:22,040 --> 00:17:25,560
for five years on a bed like I
and I was, I had prayed for a

345
00:17:25,560 --> 00:17:27,680
godly spouse.
It was just so clear that that

346
00:17:27,680 --> 00:17:31,320
God had brought this man to my
doorstep as I'm literally

347
00:17:31,320 --> 00:17:33,320
bedridden.
Like you can't.

348
00:17:33,480 --> 00:17:37,040
I mean, God basically wrote my
love story like I became the

349
00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:39,760
bedridden bride.
Like basically we got married

350
00:17:39,760 --> 00:17:42,520
because we felt called and we
were in love and that we felt a

351
00:17:42,520 --> 00:17:45,040
peace.
And our wedding verse was Isaiah

352
00:17:45,040 --> 00:17:49,040
4320, which is about how the
Lord gives us streams of

353
00:17:49,040 --> 00:17:51,880
refreshing water during our
times of desert suffering.

354
00:17:52,400 --> 00:17:55,520
Because as much of A gift as
Matt was to me, I mean, I don't

355
00:17:55,520 --> 00:17:58,280
want to pump myself, but it's
like I was a gift to him because

356
00:17:58,280 --> 00:18:02,680
I think I just brought joy and
laughter to his life when he,

357
00:18:02,840 --> 00:18:06,240
you know, Matt was, you know,
Matt was like literally a modern

358
00:18:06,240 --> 00:18:08,840
day Paul, the guy, you know, I
don't want to say stiff, but he

359
00:18:08,840 --> 00:18:11,840
was such a genius that I think
he needed a woman like me.

360
00:18:11,840 --> 00:18:15,440
Maybe like to kind of not loosen
him up, but bring out that

361
00:18:15,440 --> 00:18:18,960
beautiful side in him.
Just like I see he brought out

362
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:21,640
the side of me that was excited,
getting excited about eternal

363
00:18:21,640 --> 00:18:23,760
blessings.
Like he taught me how to focus

364
00:18:23,760 --> 00:18:27,080
on eternity and I taught him how
to focus on the now.

365
00:18:27,280 --> 00:18:29,160
Like he would never buy himself
outfits.

366
00:18:29,160 --> 00:18:30,960
He would donate all his money to
Haiti.

367
00:18:31,200 --> 00:18:34,040
And I, you know, it's like, so
the the contrast was beautiful.

368
00:18:34,040 --> 00:18:37,120
But anyway, we get married and
the long and short of it is a

369
00:18:37,120 --> 00:18:42,680
year later, he entered glory.
And at that point, you know, it

370
00:18:42,680 --> 00:18:46,400
was like I felt kind of like
Job, to be honest, because I was

371
00:18:46,400 --> 00:18:48,840
like, OK, Lord, even with the
miracle of the wedding.

372
00:18:49,200 --> 00:18:51,560
And, and it was frankly a
miracle, even me getting in a

373
00:18:51,560 --> 00:18:54,400
car to go to a wedding venue
because as you can imagine,

374
00:18:54,400 --> 00:18:57,440
getting a car, I mean, sitting
up causes me to spin harder.

375
00:18:57,440 --> 00:19:00,160
But whenever I get in the car,
it's like fuel to the fire.

376
00:19:00,440 --> 00:19:03,000
So I don't know, the Lord
sustained me, You guys, the

377
00:19:03,000 --> 00:19:05,680
world was spinning as I was
walking down the aisle, but I

378
00:19:05,680 --> 00:19:07,680
was heading towards that man,
you know what I'm saying?

379
00:19:08,040 --> 00:19:11,200
And it was a testimony to our
whole church community a that

380
00:19:11,200 --> 00:19:15,320
God gives gifts in grief.
OK, he wants to give you joy in

381
00:19:15,320 --> 00:19:17,160
the valley.
He did it for the Israelites.

382
00:19:17,400 --> 00:19:20,840
He he did it for me and Matt
like it's just that became our

383
00:19:20,840 --> 00:19:24,360
ministry that one year of
marriage like not only that God

384
00:19:24,360 --> 00:19:27,640
wants to give you joy in your
valley, but he actually calls

385
00:19:27,640 --> 00:19:30,040
you to it.
In other words, if you read the

386
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:34,480
New Testament like once you will
realize how many verses there

387
00:19:34,480 --> 00:19:37,400
are about giving thanks in all
circumstances.

388
00:19:37,600 --> 00:19:40,320
Rejoice in all you know this is
the date.

389
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,040
Excuse me, that the Lord has
made.

390
00:19:42,040 --> 00:19:45,280
I will Joyce and be glad in it.
I mean Paul and Silas

391
00:19:45,280 --> 00:19:47,960
worshipping in prison.
I mean you can't.

392
00:19:48,240 --> 00:19:51,920
It's just so clear in scripture
that the Lord calls us to have

393
00:19:51,920 --> 00:19:56,600
joy in, in, in the most.
I mean, in circumstances where

394
00:19:56,600 --> 00:19:59,320
you're just like, you know what?
I, I can't have any joy right

395
00:19:59,320 --> 00:20:00,560
now.
Like, so there might be someone

396
00:20:00,560 --> 00:20:02,640
in your audience right now who's
like rolling their eyes saying,

397
00:20:02,640 --> 00:20:03,960
give me a break.
Like you don't know what I've

398
00:20:03,960 --> 00:20:06,480
gone through.
I am telling you, I have been

399
00:20:06,480 --> 00:20:08,560
there and in many ways I am
still there.

400
00:20:08,560 --> 00:20:12,640
I lost my health, I lost my
legal career, and now I've lost

401
00:20:12,640 --> 00:20:16,200
my husband a year ago.
And yet here I am on a podcast.

402
00:20:16,400 --> 00:20:19,520
The Lord is equipping me to give
my testimony to encourage

403
00:20:19,520 --> 00:20:21,760
others.
He brings purpose from

404
00:20:21,760 --> 00:20:23,880
suffering.
Like I never believed it.

405
00:20:23,880 --> 00:20:25,800
I thought it was a bunch.
Of, you know, fairy tales.

406
00:20:25,800 --> 00:20:27,440
And I mean, I wasn't, I was a
Christian.

407
00:20:27,440 --> 00:20:31,840
I did believe that, but I never
understood Genesis 5020 until

408
00:20:31,840 --> 00:20:34,600
now.
And Genesis 5020 says what Satan

409
00:20:34,600 --> 00:20:36,720
intended for evil, God intended
for good.

410
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:41,120
And I am telling you that was
the Bible verse in my app the

411
00:20:41,120 --> 00:20:45,120
morning that Matt died.
And I was like, you know what

412
00:20:45,120 --> 00:20:48,680
Lord, this is from you.
And I testified to it during my

413
00:20:48,680 --> 00:20:50,800
memorial, during the memorial
service.

414
00:20:51,160 --> 00:20:53,920
And I just the Lord walked me
through that whole thing.

415
00:20:53,960 --> 00:20:57,760
Like I, you can see, I mean
there when you look, I mean, can

416
00:20:57,760 --> 00:21:01,040
you see, I mean looking
everywhere, left, right, up,

417
00:21:01,040 --> 00:21:04,160
down, like the Lord has been
with me in these.

418
00:21:04,520 --> 00:21:07,160
I don't I don't like the word
coincidences in these just

419
00:21:07,400 --> 00:21:11,960
obvious, but you can't deny that
like the timely verse that

420
00:21:11,960 --> 00:21:14,480
applies right to your situation.
It's just amazing.

421
00:21:14,480 --> 00:21:18,240
Like God is so good.
And I can say that as someone

422
00:21:18,240 --> 00:21:21,240
who has wrestled with intense
bitterness.

423
00:21:21,240 --> 00:21:23,280
OK, I don't want to sound like a
preacher.

424
00:21:23,280 --> 00:21:26,920
You're hearing me on my soapbox.
Now you have to read my book

425
00:21:27,000 --> 00:21:31,000
because literally, and and I'm
not saying this in like a salesy

426
00:21:31,000 --> 00:21:35,480
way, I outlined just how much
bitterness I have gone through.

427
00:21:35,480 --> 00:21:38,920
Like even as I was clinging to
the Lord, I was still fighting

428
00:21:38,920 --> 00:21:42,360
him at every step, but I still
had this much faith to kind of

429
00:21:42,360 --> 00:21:45,160
keep going.
And he was the one that he's the

430
00:21:45,160 --> 00:21:47,520
only reason I'm a Christian
after eight years today, because

431
00:21:47,840 --> 00:21:50,520
I definitely after going
through, you know, and I'm still

432
00:21:50,520 --> 00:21:53,040
go, I'm still in the fire.
That's why I titled this singing

433
00:21:53,040 --> 00:21:55,280
through fire.
Like I'm still spinning.

434
00:21:55,600 --> 00:21:58,480
So anyway, I I've gone on way
too long.

435
00:22:00,520 --> 00:22:04,800
Wow, Laura, thank you.
Yeah, of course.

436
00:22:05,840 --> 00:22:13,160
We have to pause here because I
I can't overlook Matt's death.

437
00:22:13,760 --> 00:22:15,760
Yeah.
And and your loss.

438
00:22:16,000 --> 00:22:17,200
Thank you.
Yeah.

439
00:22:17,240 --> 00:22:21,920
Yeah, I'm sorry.
Thank you so much.

440
00:22:21,920 --> 00:22:24,400
I'm going to cry now.
Thank.

441
00:22:24,440 --> 00:22:27,760
You I was almost crying a moment
ago when we talked about Genesis

442
00:22:27,760 --> 00:22:32,600
5020.
So we've got, yeah, we've got

443
00:22:32,600 --> 00:22:35,720
death in our family.
We've got death across these

444
00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:41,960
podcast episodes and it's a
reality.

445
00:22:42,280 --> 00:22:44,400
Yeah.
And we just don't, we don't

446
00:22:44,400 --> 00:22:45,920
glaze over it.
Yeah.

447
00:22:46,120 --> 00:22:48,200
So.
No, thank you.

448
00:22:48,600 --> 00:22:51,520
Yeah, absolutely.
Oh my gosh.

449
00:22:51,720 --> 00:22:54,040
That's actually really healing
because I feel like not many

450
00:22:54,040 --> 00:22:56,480
people kind of stop.
And maybe it's like, it's not a

451
00:22:56,480 --> 00:22:59,280
form of denial because I'm at
peace with it now, but maybe I

452
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:02,600
distract myself by sort of
taking it to comedy, right?

453
00:23:02,600 --> 00:23:06,080
So that I don't have to process,
but the Lord has been processing

454
00:23:06,080 --> 00:23:07,920
it with me.
But it's helpful to just stop

455
00:23:07,920 --> 00:23:11,280
now that you said it, you know?
Praise God.

456
00:23:11,280 --> 00:23:12,960
Yeah.
Praise God.

457
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:19,080
Wow.
OK, we have to rewind a little

458
00:23:19,080 --> 00:23:25,400
bit here because I want to
explore a handful of the things

459
00:23:25,400 --> 00:23:27,440
that that you have just been
talking about.

460
00:23:28,720 --> 00:23:36,400
Let's go into bitterness and
anger and in particular, if you

461
00:23:36,400 --> 00:23:44,120
could give insight into how you
may have quote, UN quote had it

462
00:23:44,120 --> 00:23:47,600
out with God.
Sure.

463
00:23:47,640 --> 00:23:50,840
I mean it was basically in my
thought life and my prayer life.

464
00:23:51,560 --> 00:23:56,000
So basically on that bed, I've
been bedridden for basically 8

465
00:23:56,000 --> 00:23:57,400
years.
I mean the first year I was

466
00:23:57,400 --> 00:23:59,240
mobile and then I was completely
bedridden.

467
00:23:59,240 --> 00:24:03,800
So on that bed, just in my
thought life as I'm praying

468
00:24:03,800 --> 00:24:06,480
Lord, why Lord, I can't do this
anymore.

469
00:24:06,480 --> 00:24:09,440
Lord, I'm so mad at you.
I, I mean, honestly, I have even

470
00:24:09,440 --> 00:24:11,280
said I hate you like I'm so
ashamed.

471
00:24:11,280 --> 00:24:14,000
Like, I'm just being honest
because it's like, I, I mean, I,

472
00:24:14,000 --> 00:24:16,920
and, and the bitterness has
stemmed not only from how

473
00:24:16,920 --> 00:24:21,000
painful the condition has been
my own condition, but then also

474
00:24:21,320 --> 00:24:25,040
because frankly, like I was a
spoiled brat in my 20s.

475
00:24:25,040 --> 00:24:28,080
I always, I knew that God allows
suffering.

476
00:24:28,080 --> 00:24:31,400
And that's why in my 20s I was
kind of trying to control him.

477
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:34,080
Like I wasn't a dummy.
I was never a prosperity gospel

478
00:24:34,080 --> 00:24:36,240
in my 20s.
I knew what God allows.

479
00:24:36,720 --> 00:24:39,560
And so I would always try to
control him and be like, you're

480
00:24:39,560 --> 00:24:41,880
going to bring me a spouse,
right, Lord, you know, that sort

481
00:24:41,880 --> 00:24:44,160
of thing.
And so the bitterness has been

482
00:24:44,160 --> 00:24:49,000
in large part jealousy and, and
envy of other Christians

483
00:24:49,000 --> 00:24:49,920
blessings.
OK.

484
00:24:50,240 --> 00:24:52,880
And it's, it's the sad part is
it's sort of always targeted at

485
00:24:52,880 --> 00:24:55,640
the Christians because I'm like,
well, if you love your children

486
00:24:55,640 --> 00:24:59,000
equally, Lord, you know, why are
you blessing that other woman

487
00:24:59,000 --> 00:25:02,160
with the long marriage, the
children, while I'm, you know,

488
00:25:02,160 --> 00:25:04,920
an invalid on a bed.
And now I lost my husband and we

489
00:25:04,920 --> 00:25:08,320
couldn't have.
I mean, very, very, you know,

490
00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:12,000
I'm telling you the ugly because
I want your listeners to know

491
00:25:12,000 --> 00:25:15,280
that like to the extent they
suffer with, you know, envy like

492
00:25:15,280 --> 00:25:18,080
I did, I, you know, I want you
to know you're not alone, but I

493
00:25:18,080 --> 00:25:21,560
also want you to know that God
will move you to the other side.

494
00:25:21,560 --> 00:25:23,880
I mean, there came a point,
Mick, where the Lord called me

495
00:25:23,880 --> 00:25:26,440
to fasting.
Like it was almost like he was

496
00:25:26,440 --> 00:25:30,800
patient with me after Matt died.
OK, just so gracious with me.

497
00:25:30,800 --> 00:25:34,440
Like, but there came a point it,
you know, 10 months after Matt

498
00:25:34,440 --> 00:25:36,880
died where I was still, you
know, this was, I mean,

499
00:25:36,880 --> 00:25:39,240
actually, anyway, maybe my
timeline's a bit off, but

500
00:25:39,240 --> 00:25:42,960
basically the Lord called me to
a fast and said you need to get

501
00:25:42,960 --> 00:25:46,000
rid of your idols.
And I was like, Oh my God.

502
00:25:46,000 --> 00:25:48,280
I mean, I knew I had idols,
right, but I just hadn't

503
00:25:48,280 --> 00:25:51,560
confronted it marriage and I
think I had gotten over the

504
00:25:51,560 --> 00:25:53,880
career idol, you know, maybe
four years into the bed.

505
00:25:53,880 --> 00:25:55,360
I mean, there comes a point you
kind of give it up.

506
00:25:55,360 --> 00:25:58,120
I mean, you know, it's like,
it's like, all right, Lord, this

507
00:25:58,120 --> 00:26:01,360
isn't your will for my life,
whatever, you know, but for the

508
00:26:01,360 --> 00:26:05,800
marriage, when marriage is such
a good thing, like it's a godly

509
00:26:05,800 --> 00:26:08,200
desire.
And yet the Lord was like, you

510
00:26:08,200 --> 00:26:11,200
are idolizing it and This is why
you can't love me even though I

511
00:26:11,200 --> 00:26:14,480
took Matt away.
And I'm telling you, I think the

512
00:26:14,480 --> 00:26:16,560
fast I had never even fasted
before.

513
00:26:16,560 --> 00:26:18,240
Like I don't know.
It was just a clear I didn't

514
00:26:18,240 --> 00:26:22,440
know it was a biblical, you
know, mandate, you know, and and

515
00:26:22,440 --> 00:26:24,840
for me, it's very hard because
I'm sick.

516
00:26:24,840 --> 00:26:26,640
You know, I can't.
Anyway, that's another

517
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:29,440
conversation.
But I think the Lord really was

518
00:26:29,440 --> 00:26:31,720
pruning me and opening my eyes
to that.

519
00:26:31,720 --> 00:26:34,960
It's very hard make not to be
bitter when you have lost

520
00:26:34,960 --> 00:26:37,360
something.
I mean, I mean, I'm just maybe

521
00:26:37,360 --> 00:26:41,480
just not an example Christian,
like Matt, for example, was so

522
00:26:41,480 --> 00:26:44,360
Christ like, like I cannot.
I mean, that's why he gave me a

523
00:26:44,360 --> 00:26:47,640
theology of suffering.
Like he, he didn't, he was like,

524
00:26:47,640 --> 00:26:49,960
Laura, you're always idolizing
the earthly blessings.

525
00:26:49,960 --> 00:26:52,240
Why don't you focus a little bit
on the eternal blessings?

526
00:26:52,240 --> 00:26:54,840
And I'm like, I can't see the
eternal blessings.

527
00:26:54,840 --> 00:26:59,160
What eternal blessings?
And yet he would say stay hope,

528
00:26:59,560 --> 00:27:03,320
love and and honestly, you have
to read my book because I have

529
00:27:03,320 --> 00:27:06,520
changed so dramatically.
Like I included a lot in my book

530
00:27:06,520 --> 00:27:09,760
about eternity because I have
learned so much about like, what

531
00:27:09,760 --> 00:27:11,320
are those eternal blessings,
Lord?

532
00:27:11,320 --> 00:27:14,800
Like are there any carrots that
we can look forward to if we

533
00:27:14,800 --> 00:27:18,080
feel, you know, like we're job
on this side because some of us

534
00:27:18,080 --> 00:27:21,360
don't get the job like double
redemption at the end.

535
00:27:21,360 --> 00:27:23,120
Like I've always kind of
struggled with that because I'm

536
00:27:23,120 --> 00:27:24,520
like, Lord, did you really have
to?

537
00:27:24,880 --> 00:27:28,080
In other words, I, I'm glad that
he restored double to Job, but I

538
00:27:28,080 --> 00:27:31,920
got jealous of Job now because I
was like, well, Matt and I

539
00:27:31,920 --> 00:27:33,320
aren't going to get the double
here.

540
00:27:33,320 --> 00:27:35,560
Like if you bring Matt to life,
then we'll get the double

541
00:27:35,560 --> 00:27:37,040
restoration.
But where is that?

542
00:27:37,360 --> 00:27:40,360
But that was Matt's whole
ministry was showing that there

543
00:27:40,360 --> 00:27:43,240
are blessings in eternity.
I mean, there is a doctrine of

544
00:27:43,240 --> 00:27:45,000
rewards.
And as Christians we want to be

545
00:27:45,000 --> 00:27:47,040
careful because it's like you
don't want to do it for the

546
00:27:47,040 --> 00:27:51,000
eternal reward or whatever.
But I think as a father, he does

547
00:27:51,000 --> 00:27:54,640
want to incentivize you.
Hey, there is a whole other life

548
00:27:54,640 --> 00:27:56,400
after this.
This is just the training.

549
00:27:56,400 --> 00:28:00,560
This is just a mist, a vapor.
And so he does, he has spoken to

550
00:28:00,560 --> 00:28:04,920
me a few times about, hey, you
know, I will redeem your story

551
00:28:04,920 --> 00:28:06,560
in eternity.
You know, I don't know what that

552
00:28:06,560 --> 00:28:09,680
redemption looks like, but I
believe that the Lord, it's not

553
00:28:09,680 --> 00:28:13,920
about compensation, but like to
some extent it kind of is like I

554
00:28:13,920 --> 00:28:17,280
kind of want to be honest, like
doesn't Joel 225 say like I will

555
00:28:17,280 --> 00:28:19,520
restore the years the locusts
have stolen?

556
00:28:19,840 --> 00:28:22,960
So the God's heart is good.
And I do think for some of us

557
00:28:22,960 --> 00:28:24,520
that redemption will come in
eternity.

558
00:28:24,520 --> 00:28:27,480
Like we will see looking back
that you know, I don't know how

559
00:28:27,480 --> 00:28:30,200
he will redeem my story with
Matt the minute I enter heaven,

560
00:28:30,200 --> 00:28:32,600
but I believe that he will
because he is good.

561
00:28:35,080 --> 00:28:37,840
Mic drop on that one.
Thank you.

562
00:28:38,440 --> 00:28:45,080
Praise God, I really appreciate
how you were raw there.

563
00:28:45,640 --> 00:28:50,480
The reason for my question was,
one, just naturally wanted to

564
00:28:50,480 --> 00:28:54,320
understand this more and two, I
had a clear sense that you would

565
00:28:54,320 --> 00:29:00,080
be honest because I know a lot
of people that prey in what I

566
00:29:00,080 --> 00:29:02,760
will consider to be corporate
ease.

567
00:29:03,360 --> 00:29:07,640
OK, They they speak in a way and
I'm borrowing kind of like

568
00:29:07,640 --> 00:29:10,560
corporate language and pulling
it into a religious space, but

569
00:29:10,560 --> 00:29:13,840
they speak in a way that they've
kind of been trained at work.

570
00:29:14,680 --> 00:29:19,080
And so it's all really correct.
Oh yeah.

571
00:29:19,680 --> 00:29:27,000
And it's not raw and it's not
surprised that they're like,

572
00:29:27,000 --> 00:29:29,920
Hey, I'm not, I'm not having a
lot of I'm not having a lot of

573
00:29:29,920 --> 00:29:33,880
relationship with God, you know,
in these prayers.

574
00:29:34,640 --> 00:29:39,800
And I appreciate the fact that
you were transparent with us and

575
00:29:39,800 --> 00:29:43,840
talked us through that for you.
So let's explore for another

576
00:29:43,840 --> 00:29:47,960
minute this theology change for
you.

577
00:29:48,560 --> 00:29:52,880
And obviously Matt helped you
with this, but and and and

578
00:29:52,880 --> 00:29:56,080
you've certainly alluded to it,
but like, let's make this one

579
00:29:56,080 --> 00:30:00,200
crystal.
I was this, now I'm this kind of

580
00:30:00,200 --> 00:30:08,080
thing in terms of my theology.
OK, so basically I wasn't

581
00:30:08,080 --> 00:30:10,560
prosperity gospel before my
suffering again.

582
00:30:10,560 --> 00:30:14,280
I, I, I, you know, I was smart
enough to, I mean, I in fact,

583
00:30:14,280 --> 00:30:16,960
and I don't think this is a
coincidence.

584
00:30:16,960 --> 00:30:20,320
In 2014, three years before I
fell, I'll, I was very like,

585
00:30:20,840 --> 00:30:24,440
kind of just wondering like why
I was still single.

586
00:30:24,440 --> 00:30:26,040
I mean, this is almost comical
because it's like that.

587
00:30:26,040 --> 00:30:27,720
I thought that was the
suffering, which it is

588
00:30:27,720 --> 00:30:29,160
suffering.
Like, you know, you know, I'm

589
00:30:29,160 --> 00:30:31,240
single again.
So it's kind of, I mean, I don't

590
00:30:31,240 --> 00:30:33,920
want to mitigate the suffering
on that, but so I bought a bunch

591
00:30:33,920 --> 00:30:37,840
of books about suffering and I
was also demoralized over the

592
00:30:37,840 --> 00:30:42,200
early death of my aunt Jackie
from from cancer at age 55 S

593
00:30:42,200 --> 00:30:44,880
just a conglomeration of things
brought me to buy a bunch of

594
00:30:44,880 --> 00:30:46,720
books about why God allows
suffering.

595
00:30:47,080 --> 00:30:49,840
And looking back, that was three
years before I fell seriously

596
00:30:49,840 --> 00:30:51,160
ill.
And so I think the Lord was

597
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:53,400
preparing me.
He always, I mean, he doesn't

598
00:30:53,400 --> 00:30:55,880
always prepare you, you know,
you know, sometimes you might

599
00:30:55,920 --> 00:30:57,760
car crash or whatever.
I don't want to scare people,

600
00:30:57,760 --> 00:31:01,040
but like, I do feel like the
Lord really prepared me, you

601
00:31:01,040 --> 00:31:04,880
know what I'm saying?
But at that time I, I knew the,

602
00:31:04,960 --> 00:31:08,640
the Lord allows suffering, but I
was still very prideful and

603
00:31:08,640 --> 00:31:11,040
selfish about what you won't
allow that in my life.

604
00:31:11,040 --> 00:31:13,800
Right Lord, Right Lord, Right
Lord, You know those sorts of

605
00:31:13,800 --> 00:31:18,920
prayers.
Now I see that basically blessed

606
00:31:18,920 --> 00:31:21,600
are those who mourn, right?
Blessed are the persecuted,

607
00:31:21,600 --> 00:31:24,800
blessed are the poor in spirit.
Blessed are, I mean, Christ's

608
00:31:24,800 --> 00:31:26,760
Kingdom.
And I know it sounds trite, but

609
00:31:26,760 --> 00:31:30,920
it's like we we cling so much to
these earthly blessings, like

610
00:31:31,160 --> 00:31:34,320
not having pain.
I mean, obviously we don't want

611
00:31:34,320 --> 00:31:35,960
pain.
I want to use my words

612
00:31:35,960 --> 00:31:39,640
judiciously, but it's like after
after being in the fire and I'm

613
00:31:39,640 --> 00:31:44,720
still in pain chronically 24/7.
It's almost like I have realized

614
00:31:44,720 --> 00:31:47,080
that those earthly blessings
that I'm missing.

615
00:31:47,400 --> 00:31:50,520
I mean, I don't know if I'm
articulating myself well.

616
00:31:50,520 --> 00:31:52,040
Like, yes, those things are
good.

617
00:31:52,040 --> 00:31:54,280
I would kill to have Matt back
in marriage and all these

618
00:31:54,280 --> 00:31:56,720
things.
But it really is true that

619
00:31:56,720 --> 00:32:00,160
blessing doesn't necessarily
mean your earthly circumstances,

620
00:32:00,160 --> 00:32:03,840
whether that means marriage or
necessarily having all your

621
00:32:03,840 --> 00:32:06,760
dreams with how many kids you
want to pop out or your career

622
00:32:06,760 --> 00:32:09,800
goals or whatever.
I mean, the Christ has an upside

623
00:32:09,800 --> 00:32:11,720
down Kingdom, whether we like it
or not.

624
00:32:12,120 --> 00:32:16,200
You know, the weak are strong.
The you know, the poor shall

625
00:32:16,200 --> 00:32:19,080
inherit the earth.
Take up your cross and deny

626
00:32:19,080 --> 00:32:21,560
yourself.
Those are all Jesus's words, not

627
00:32:21,560 --> 00:32:24,440
mine.
And it's like, so my theology

628
00:32:24,440 --> 00:32:28,280
was slipped upside down.
And I think there's a verse that

629
00:32:28,280 --> 00:32:31,520
says that the Lord's foolishness
is wiser than man's wisdom.

630
00:32:31,520 --> 00:32:32,680
I mean, it's like Proverbs or
so.

631
00:32:32,680 --> 00:32:37,160
I mean, the point is that our
theology, whether we like it or

632
00:32:37,160 --> 00:32:39,680
not, sometimes the prosperity
gospel kind of sneaks in.

633
00:32:39,840 --> 00:32:41,280
It's kind of like, oh, God is
good.

634
00:32:41,280 --> 00:32:43,640
So he will always deliver us.
Oh, God is good.

635
00:32:43,640 --> 00:32:45,760
He will always.
But look at Matt.

636
00:32:45,760 --> 00:32:49,080
I mean, he passed away when he
was the most Christlike person

637
00:32:49,080 --> 00:32:51,920
I've ever met.
And the whole church was praying

638
00:32:51,920 --> 00:32:53,480
for him.
Thousands of Armenians were

639
00:32:53,480 --> 00:32:56,760
praying for him in Haiti,
London, Vietnam, all of his

640
00:32:56,760 --> 00:32:59,320
missions teams.
I mean, and yet here we are.

641
00:32:59,800 --> 00:33:04,720
So it's like there's some things
we can't understand.

642
00:33:04,720 --> 00:33:07,240
But if we're going to cling to
Genesis 5020, we're going to

643
00:33:07,240 --> 00:33:09,080
cling to it or not, You know
what I'm saying?

644
00:33:09,080 --> 00:33:11,840
Like either God uses evil for
good or he doesn't.

645
00:33:11,840 --> 00:33:13,520
And it's one of the hard, it's
obviously the hardest.

646
00:33:13,520 --> 00:33:16,320
The problem of evil is the
hardest question in in in

647
00:33:16,320 --> 00:33:18,680
mankind, you know, let alone
Christianity.

648
00:33:21,400 --> 00:33:23,760
Thanks.
That was good.

649
00:33:25,680 --> 00:33:30,880
Talk with me a little bit more
about acceptance.

650
00:33:31,960 --> 00:33:34,840
Yeah.
Oh, man, I mean that word.

651
00:33:34,840 --> 00:33:40,920
I hated that word for so long.
I mean, it's so difficult to

652
00:33:40,920 --> 00:33:44,080
come to acceptance when the
thing you are begging for is

653
00:33:44,080 --> 00:33:47,000
something that is godly, OK?
If God calls me to acceptance

654
00:33:47,000 --> 00:33:48,600
like that, he's not going to
give me a Ferrari.

655
00:33:48,600 --> 00:33:50,920
It's like, who cares?
Or calls me to acceptance that

656
00:33:50,920 --> 00:33:52,520
I'm not going to be a Supreme
Court Justice.

657
00:33:52,520 --> 00:33:56,240
It's like, all right, fine.
Like I'll be, you know, but but

658
00:33:56,240 --> 00:33:59,960
when he calls you to acceptance
of losing your spouse, losing

659
00:33:59,960 --> 00:34:04,040
your health, you know, or, or
acceptance of, you know, I mean

660
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:09,159
losing my career, it's like it's
hard to understand why he does

661
00:34:09,159 --> 00:34:11,080
that.
And I think some things we will

662
00:34:11,080 --> 00:34:14,600
never know until eternity.
God has given me some answers,

663
00:34:15,080 --> 00:34:18,800
but it's more like he's given me
macro reasons for why I have to

664
00:34:18,800 --> 00:34:21,320
come to acceptance.
Like in other words, macro

665
00:34:21,320 --> 00:34:23,920
reasons for suffering.
We are conforming to Christ

666
00:34:23,920 --> 00:34:27,920
Romans 829 like, but he's hasn't
given me like the specific

667
00:34:27,920 --> 00:34:30,679
answer of This is why Matt had
to die or whatever.

668
00:34:30,679 --> 00:34:34,600
I just know that he's using it
for good and that acceptance.

669
00:34:35,199 --> 00:34:39,120
I think if you actually believe
there are purposes for this,

670
00:34:39,719 --> 00:34:42,920
then it the acceptance sort of
naturally flows.

671
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,560
Now you might wrestle, you
wrestle with God, you know, a

672
00:34:45,560 --> 00:34:47,880
little bit in that or maybe a
lot like I did.

673
00:34:47,880 --> 00:34:51,120
But there comes a point, as you
can tell right now, you can see

674
00:34:51,120 --> 00:34:55,880
I'm at a greater space of
acceptance because you just if

675
00:34:56,080 --> 00:34:58,400
you like, there's a John Piper
sermon where he said that there

676
00:34:58,400 --> 00:35:01,800
are 10,000 things God is
probably doing in your pain and

677
00:35:01,800 --> 00:35:03,480
yet you might only see three of
them.

678
00:35:03,480 --> 00:35:05,800
You might not even see any of
them until eternity.

679
00:35:05,800 --> 00:35:09,560
But like the Bible promises over
and over again that he is

680
00:35:09,560 --> 00:35:13,160
working out purposes that we
can't see and that are

681
00:35:13,160 --> 00:35:15,280
redemptive.
So we're either going to believe

682
00:35:15,280 --> 00:35:17,040
it or not.
And once you start moving in the

683
00:35:17,040 --> 00:35:20,760
direction of belief, that's when
acceptance comes.

684
00:35:21,400 --> 00:35:25,760
Yeah, Isaiah's 55 talks about
how his ways are higher and his

685
00:35:25,760 --> 00:35:30,840
thoughts are higher than ours.
And I've recently tried to

686
00:35:31,920 --> 00:35:35,600
codify this into, like, God, you
know, like back in my corporate

687
00:35:35,600 --> 00:35:38,720
days, there was this phraseology
of like, ah, we don't want to

688
00:35:38,720 --> 00:35:41,080
play checkers, we want to play
chess.

689
00:35:41,120 --> 00:35:44,040
You know, like, meaning we want
to be more strategic, right.

690
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:47,520
Yeah.
I thought chuckle at this now

691
00:35:47,520 --> 00:35:52,440
because it's all just so
ridiculous, but I'm like, God,

692
00:35:52,480 --> 00:35:56,600
God's playing super chess.
And then I'm like, no way, man,

693
00:35:57,080 --> 00:36:04,240
that there's not even a way to
describe what he what what he

694
00:36:04,240 --> 00:36:06,720
plays, so to speak.
You know what I mean?

695
00:36:06,720 --> 00:36:13,720
It's so far beyond all of that.
It is, it is reminiscent, I

696
00:36:13,720 --> 00:36:15,800
think of exactly what you were
talking about there with the

697
00:36:15,800 --> 00:36:17,840
John Piper sermon.
Could be 10,000 things.

698
00:36:17,840 --> 00:36:20,920
We may not see any of them.
We may only see three, you know.

699
00:36:22,200 --> 00:36:25,200
I mean, that was brilliant.
I mean, yeah, Isaiah 55 is one

700
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:27,840
of my favorites because it
almost releases me.

701
00:36:27,840 --> 00:36:28,840
It's kind of like, you know
what?

702
00:36:28,840 --> 00:36:30,120
Because I'm a lawyer.
I'm like you.

703
00:36:30,120 --> 00:36:33,760
It's like analytical whatever.
We try to find out the why and

704
00:36:33,760 --> 00:36:37,640
yet that just gives me calm like
you're not.

705
00:36:37,800 --> 00:36:39,880
I mean, it's not like you're not
going to understand, but I think

706
00:36:39,880 --> 00:36:43,920
it kind of is actually like just
trust me, trust me with child

707
00:36:43,920 --> 00:36:46,520
like abandoned, like it almost
releases you to be like, you

708
00:36:46,520 --> 00:36:50,160
know what?
The Lord knows and I don't need

709
00:36:50,160 --> 00:36:52,200
to know.
And it's almost pompous to think

710
00:36:52,200 --> 00:36:55,520
that we can understand it.
Like I never, to be honest, I

711
00:36:55,520 --> 00:36:58,240
mean, Nick, I never really liked
that analogy where people are

712
00:36:58,240 --> 00:37:01,800
like, oh, it's like a parent
who, you know, does a million

713
00:37:01,800 --> 00:37:05,520
things to the child and the
child thinks it's hurtful, but

714
00:37:05,520 --> 00:37:08,320
it's actually good for the kid.
Like, I don't know why that

715
00:37:08,320 --> 00:37:10,680
analogy always felt kind of off
to me.

716
00:37:11,360 --> 00:37:12,880
And you know why?
I think you know why?

717
00:37:12,880 --> 00:37:16,920
Because when you're the one
who's suffering, it's like the

718
00:37:16,920 --> 00:37:19,760
way it rubbed me wrong when I
read these Christian articles.

719
00:37:19,760 --> 00:37:22,120
And I'm not trying to be mean
against people who write these

720
00:37:22,120 --> 00:37:24,360
articles as Christian brothers
and sisters in Christ, but like,

721
00:37:24,360 --> 00:37:28,520
it made me feel like, oh, so
this suffering is good for me,

722
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:30,480
but not for others.
In other words, like he's

723
00:37:30,480 --> 00:37:33,280
withholding from me because that
thing would be bad for you.

724
00:37:33,280 --> 00:37:35,800
Like he's the parent.
He's not going to give you 20

725
00:37:35,800 --> 00:37:38,040
more years with Mac because it
would be bad for you.

726
00:37:38,040 --> 00:37:41,720
Like my theology would get kind
of mixed up and it gets, it

727
00:37:41,720 --> 00:37:44,720
creates more bitterness.
And you know, there came a point

728
00:37:44,720 --> 00:37:47,080
where God answered me and was
like, I know, know what's best

729
00:37:47,080 --> 00:37:49,680
for you.
And, and frankly, that was even

730
00:37:49,680 --> 00:37:52,200
hard to hear because I was like,
what are you saying?

731
00:37:52,200 --> 00:37:55,000
Are you saying it wasn't best
for me to be married?

732
00:37:55,480 --> 00:37:58,200
And the Lord answered me with
Isaiah 55.

733
00:37:58,320 --> 00:38:01,320
So, you know, when I asked him
again, And so that was his

734
00:38:01,320 --> 00:38:03,960
second answer.
And so it's like, all right, you

735
00:38:03,960 --> 00:38:06,520
know what's best for me, but I'm
not going to understand it.

736
00:38:06,520 --> 00:38:09,320
Like, So what does that mean?
I mean, and I came to a point

737
00:38:09,320 --> 00:38:12,560
where I realized I could keep
asking him, but that's the

738
00:38:12,560 --> 00:38:14,480
point.
I'm not going to understand it.

739
00:38:14,480 --> 00:38:17,400
And he even told me once through
sort of of like a coincidence

740
00:38:17,400 --> 00:38:18,760
with couple friends sending it
to me.

741
00:38:19,000 --> 00:38:22,800
God sees the bigger picture.
And I, I don't really know what

742
00:38:22,800 --> 00:38:25,480
that means.
Like, does that mean I was going

743
00:38:25,480 --> 00:38:27,520
to do something wrong?
I think that's Satan planning

744
00:38:27,520 --> 00:38:29,600
doubts, right?
It's like, say, you know, but

745
00:38:29,600 --> 00:38:32,600
you could see how a sufferer
could take it in that direction.

746
00:38:32,600 --> 00:38:35,840
So it's been a wrestle with the
Lord even there.

747
00:38:35,840 --> 00:38:40,280
But I think as you can tell,
I've come to a greater, you

748
00:38:40,280 --> 00:38:44,080
know, place where I'm like, OK,
Isaiah 55, whatever, God's used

749
00:38:44,080 --> 00:38:45,600
the bigger picture.
Maybe there are other people

750
00:38:45,600 --> 00:38:47,000
involved.
It's not like I'm just some

751
00:38:47,000 --> 00:38:49,800
degraded person that can't have
a spouse for 20 years.

752
00:38:49,800 --> 00:38:52,240
Like you see how Satan can mess
with us.

753
00:38:52,520 --> 00:38:54,960
And because Satan takes half
truths, right?

754
00:38:55,280 --> 00:38:58,360
And he's, he's disguised as an
Angel of light sometimes.

755
00:38:58,360 --> 00:39:00,400
So anyway, you get what I'm
saying.

756
00:39:01,600 --> 00:39:05,800
I do, and I really hope that
that our listeners do as well.

757
00:39:06,680 --> 00:39:10,040
It was I, I, I found myself
chuckling a moment ago,

758
00:39:10,040 --> 00:39:13,680
chuckling in agreement with you
because she talks about, you

759
00:39:13,680 --> 00:39:19,600
know, like what I describe as
God makes these massively clear,

760
00:39:19,600 --> 00:39:23,160
but super large brush stroke
statements to us.

761
00:39:23,480 --> 00:39:27,760
Yeah, like my ways are higher or
like you said, I know what's

762
00:39:27,760 --> 00:39:31,600
best for you, you know, and I'm
like, OK, that's a huge brush

763
00:39:31,600 --> 00:39:34,720
stroke.
And it's totally true, right?

764
00:39:34,720 --> 00:39:36,320
But like, what did that mean for
me?

765
00:39:36,640 --> 00:39:40,160
Can we, can we use the
watercolor brush instead of

766
00:39:40,160 --> 00:39:42,480
like, you know, the six inch
brush, right?

767
00:39:42,480 --> 00:39:47,760
Like so I absolutely get you on
that.

768
00:39:48,200 --> 00:39:51,080
Thank you for that.
I mean, that helps me because

769
00:39:51,080 --> 00:39:54,440
it's, I felt like I'm the only
one who's like, yeah.

770
00:39:55,200 --> 00:39:57,920
No, definitely not.
OK.

771
00:39:58,160 --> 00:40:01,080
So there's two other major
questions that I want to explore

772
00:40:01,080 --> 00:40:04,080
with you here.
The first of which is.

773
00:40:06,520 --> 00:40:11,560
How do you hear from God the
Holy Spirit?

774
00:40:12,040 --> 00:40:14,040
Jesus.
Absolutely.

775
00:40:14,040 --> 00:40:16,440
It's always one of three-way.
I mean, it's almost comical

776
00:40:16,440 --> 00:40:18,720
because I mean he he speaks
out-of-the-box too.

777
00:40:18,720 --> 00:40:20,600
But for me it's always like a
coincidence.

778
00:40:20,600 --> 00:40:24,040
It's like, I'll see a verse in
the Bible, I'll be reading it,

779
00:40:24,040 --> 00:40:26,840
and then maybe 3 hours later or
two days later, I'll see the

780
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,800
same verse in my Christian
devotional app.

781
00:40:28,800 --> 00:40:30,640
And I'll be like, I just read
that.

782
00:40:30,840 --> 00:40:33,760
And then the next day a friend
will text it and I'm like, OK,

783
00:40:33,760 --> 00:40:37,040
now I'm starting to feel like
this is a theme that the Lord is

784
00:40:37,040 --> 00:40:40,920
trying to give me.
So that's one way there.

785
00:40:40,920 --> 00:40:43,440
What?
You know, I guess, Yeah, just

786
00:40:43,440 --> 00:40:47,040
the coincidental verses,
devotionals, you know, also

787
00:40:47,040 --> 00:40:50,120
through Christian brothers and
sisters in Christ, you know,

788
00:40:50,120 --> 00:40:53,200
kind of like hearing, you know,
OK, is this like, I'll give you

789
00:40:53,200 --> 00:40:56,640
an example.
When Matt died, a month after

790
00:40:56,640 --> 00:40:59,200
Matt died, the Lord called me to
write this book.

791
00:40:59,280 --> 00:41:02,200
OK.
And basically I was on that bed

792
00:41:02,200 --> 00:41:04,640
crying and my friend calls me
and says, have you considered

793
00:41:04,640 --> 00:41:06,880
writing a book?
And I'm like, no, I'm a lawyer.

794
00:41:06,880 --> 00:41:08,320
I don't care.
My head is spinning.

795
00:41:08,320 --> 00:41:10,640
If I ever worked again, it would
be in the law firm.

796
00:41:10,840 --> 00:41:14,280
And the next day, another
Christian mentor calls me and

797
00:41:14,280 --> 00:41:15,920
says, have you considered
writing a book?

798
00:41:16,240 --> 00:41:19,120
And I'm like, no, but this is
starting to feel very strange.

799
00:41:19,400 --> 00:41:23,960
So I start praying And the next
week, the Holy Spirit, I keep

800
00:41:23,960 --> 00:41:27,280
bumping into Ephesians 210
everywhere in my devotional app

801
00:41:27,280 --> 00:41:30,560
in on Instagram of all places,
like God speaks to Instagram

802
00:41:30,560 --> 00:41:32,680
guys, I'm telling you, I know it
sounds hilarious, but it's like

803
00:41:32,880 --> 00:41:36,520
he can use these coincidences.
And I and Ephesians 210 says the

804
00:41:36,520 --> 00:41:39,680
Lord calls us to good works.
You know, he has prepared good

805
00:41:39,680 --> 00:41:41,200
works in advance for us to do
so.

806
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:43,680
I was like, you know what?
I heard your, Yep, I heard your

807
00:41:43,680 --> 00:41:46,320
job offer.
Lord, I start writing that it

808
00:41:46,320 --> 00:41:49,840
took me 8 months on that bed
with my laptop on my knees, with

809
00:41:49,840 --> 00:41:52,400
my brain spinning.
I cranked out the manuscript and

810
00:41:52,400 --> 00:41:55,240
here we are.
And So what I'm saying is I

811
00:41:55,240 --> 00:41:58,160
usually it's like just
confirmation.

812
00:42:00,320 --> 00:42:02,160
Yeah.
I mean, how does he speak with

813
00:42:02,160 --> 00:42:02,720
you?
Yeah.

814
00:42:03,520 --> 00:42:06,400
Well, I'll get I'll gladly
answer that in a second, but

815
00:42:07,000 --> 00:42:10,440
this is this is the perfect
segue into my second question.

816
00:42:11,480 --> 00:42:16,080
How do you ensure it's not
confirmation bias?

817
00:42:16,920 --> 00:42:21,280
Oh my gosh, so many people have
asked me this because like when

818
00:42:21,320 --> 00:42:23,840
when the Lord called me to
acceptance of this illness, so

819
00:42:23,840 --> 00:42:26,400
many people were like, no, he
wouldn't do that.

820
00:42:26,400 --> 00:42:27,680
He wouldn't.
It's like, oh really?

821
00:42:27,680 --> 00:42:29,600
He told Paul he's not going to
heal Paul.

822
00:42:29,760 --> 00:42:32,840
I mean, there, I mean, God says
no to good desires all the time.

823
00:42:33,080 --> 00:42:36,320
Like, and why would I even make
this up myself or give up or

824
00:42:36,320 --> 00:42:37,800
whatever.
Like I've been trying to heal

825
00:42:37,800 --> 00:42:39,560
for eight years.
Like, are you people blind?

826
00:42:39,880 --> 00:42:42,440
I mean, I'm not trying to be me.
I'm trying to be comedic, you

827
00:42:42,440 --> 00:42:44,480
know.
I hope my church member you're.

828
00:42:44,480 --> 00:42:47,880
Making me laugh.
So you're you're successful in

829
00:42:47,880 --> 00:42:51,560
your community approach.
But oh God, what was the

830
00:42:51,560 --> 00:42:53,320
question?
Now I've lost track.

831
00:42:53,320 --> 00:42:55,720
Confirmation bias.
Oh, you.

832
00:42:55,760 --> 00:42:58,720
Know I struggled with this I
struggled with this because I

833
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:02,280
will be completely honest while
I was strictly bedridden, there

834
00:43:02,280 --> 00:43:06,560
were a few times where I felt
like the Lord was saying he was

835
00:43:06,560 --> 00:43:11,600
going to heal me OK and so right
there you can imagine why I was

836
00:43:11,600 --> 00:43:14,680
demoralized later when it was
like acceptance what acceptance

837
00:43:14,680 --> 00:43:18,880
and so I look back and it's like
well were those coincidences

838
00:43:18,880 --> 00:43:21,880
where I felt like he was saying
he was going to heal me like

839
00:43:21,880 --> 00:43:25,640
what what I mean so you're right
Nick like I really have

840
00:43:25,640 --> 00:43:28,840
struggled with this in my
Christian life too like just in

841
00:43:28,880 --> 00:43:31,560
another context too like, you
know like there was a

842
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,160
circumstance when I was younger
when it was like, you know I was

843
00:43:34,160 --> 00:43:37,160
dating this person very casually
and it's like I felt like I saw

844
00:43:37,160 --> 00:43:40,000
a million coincidences and then
we ended up only going on three

845
00:43:40,000 --> 00:43:42,240
dates and like obviously he
wasn't my husband.

846
00:43:42,240 --> 00:43:46,200
It became very clear, but it's
like sometimes we do get, you

847
00:43:46,440 --> 00:43:50,440
know, I don't know if that's
Satan messing with us by I

848
00:43:50,520 --> 00:43:54,120
really don't know, or if there
just are coincidences like there

849
00:43:54,120 --> 00:43:56,520
are, you know, like, so I don't
know.

850
00:43:56,520 --> 00:43:59,200
To answer your question, I think
because we have the Spirit

851
00:43:59,200 --> 00:44:04,040
living in US, you can usually
hell and in fact, I don't think

852
00:44:04,040 --> 00:44:07,960
the Lord dislikes it when we ask
him to confirm.

853
00:44:07,960 --> 00:44:10,880
In other words, like obviously
Gideon's fleece example isn't

854
00:44:10,880 --> 00:44:13,800
the best example.
I think God wants to he wants

855
00:44:13,800 --> 00:44:16,000
childlike faith from us where we
don't need signs.

856
00:44:16,000 --> 00:44:18,560
I mean, Jesus said a wicked and
adulterous generation asks for a

857
00:44:18,560 --> 00:44:21,680
sign, but I can't tell you how
many times Mick, I have pleaded

858
00:44:21,680 --> 00:44:24,440
with the Lord to give me one
more verse that will explain

859
00:44:24,440 --> 00:44:27,280
this suffering or this and he
has the answer.

860
00:44:27,440 --> 00:44:31,880
And so he does confirm such that
we know it's not confirmation

861
00:44:31,880 --> 00:44:34,240
bias at at least in most of the
cases.

862
00:44:34,360 --> 00:44:40,000
Does that make sense?
Absolutely, absolutely yeah.

863
00:44:40,000 --> 00:44:42,840
And since you asked, I'll just
chime in from from your

864
00:44:42,840 --> 00:44:45,960
question.
So I've heard from the Lord in

865
00:44:45,960 --> 00:44:48,800
in virtually all of the
modalities that you were

866
00:44:48,800 --> 00:44:53,160
describing as well.
I've also been blessed by

867
00:44:53,160 --> 00:44:58,880
hearing his voice directly,
audibly, and it was in response

868
00:44:58,880 --> 00:45:04,400
to an incredibly frustrated
prayer that I was praying.

869
00:45:06,720 --> 00:45:09,480
Yeah.
And that's probably a whole

870
00:45:09,480 --> 00:45:12,120
separate story, which I'm glad
to tell at some point.

871
00:45:12,120 --> 00:45:21,200
But the key for me in so far as
when I really know it's from

872
00:45:21,200 --> 00:45:27,840
him, is it's 100% not at all
what I want to do.

873
00:45:29,040 --> 00:45:31,160
Hallelujah, man.
Exactly.

874
00:45:31,240 --> 00:45:32,840
Oh my God, there's.
No way.

875
00:45:32,840 --> 00:45:35,120
This is me.
No way.

876
00:45:35,520 --> 00:45:40,560
Because if I was doing this, we
wouldn't be doing it, Yeah.

877
00:45:41,200 --> 00:45:43,800
Exactly.
And that's why my acceptance

878
00:45:43,800 --> 00:45:46,360
thing, it frustrated me when
people were like, that's not

879
00:45:46,360 --> 00:45:48,720
from God.
I'm like, would I make this up?

880
00:45:48,840 --> 00:45:51,480
Do you really think I want to
give up when I'm spinning on a

881
00:45:51,480 --> 00:45:53,160
bed?
Like I yeah.

882
00:45:53,320 --> 00:45:56,280
So thank you for saying that.
It's usually he.

883
00:45:56,400 --> 00:45:58,760
I don't know, man.
He guides us to such strange

884
00:45:58,760 --> 00:46:00,960
paths.
Like it's.

885
00:46:01,040 --> 00:46:02,240
Yeah.
Yeah.

886
00:46:02,920 --> 00:46:06,320
And I think it's important maybe
here for us just to pause based

887
00:46:06,320 --> 00:46:13,040
on that comment that like we
have the lullaby effect, I think

888
00:46:13,040 --> 00:46:16,280
in the modern Church of like, Oh
yeah, you know, Abraham just

889
00:46:16,280 --> 00:46:20,760
went and took Isaac.
Like, dude, that that's that is

890
00:46:20,840 --> 00:46:24,920
100% not what he would want to
do.

891
00:46:25,360 --> 00:46:29,640
It's 100% weird.
Like, oh, and they just walked

892
00:46:29,640 --> 00:46:31,360
through the Red Sea on dry
grounds.

893
00:46:31,360 --> 00:46:34,000
Like, yes, it absolutely
happened.

894
00:46:34,000 --> 00:46:37,400
But like, this is huge.
Like why are we just, Oh yeah,

895
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:39,520
just walked on through, you know
what I mean?

896
00:46:39,520 --> 00:46:44,600
Like so and, and I'm bringing
those, you know, 2 examples up

897
00:46:44,600 --> 00:46:47,080
mostly just because you just say
like God calls us to, to, to

898
00:46:47,480 --> 00:46:50,320
basically weird circumstances.
You know, gosh.

899
00:46:50,880 --> 00:46:53,440
And that's, that happens in the
modern day and we look at it and

900
00:46:53,440 --> 00:46:57,280
go, wow, maybe there's there's
probably not a, a, a Bible story

901
00:46:57,280 --> 00:46:59,520
or a block of texts that applies
here.

902
00:46:59,520 --> 00:47:01,800
And it's like, wait a second,
these are all weird

903
00:47:01,800 --> 00:47:05,560
circumstances.
You know, absolutely.

904
00:47:05,760 --> 00:47:08,080
I I mean absolutely.
Yeah.

905
00:47:08,160 --> 00:47:10,880
OK, one, one last question for
you and then we'll kind of

906
00:47:10,880 --> 00:47:12,720
round, round this whole thing
out.

907
00:47:13,520 --> 00:47:20,640
But you talked about clinging to
him all while you were kind of

908
00:47:21,320 --> 00:47:25,120
very angry at him or, or, or,
and and maybe I don't remember

909
00:47:25,120 --> 00:47:26,920
the the phrase that she used
specifically.

910
00:47:26,920 --> 00:47:30,720
But you also then talked in that
kind of same phrase, Laura,

911
00:47:30,720 --> 00:47:37,040
about how he kept you a
Christian.

912
00:47:37,680 --> 00:47:41,920
Oh yeah.
So like, illuminate that for us.

913
00:47:42,480 --> 00:47:45,880
So there is a first and second
Timothy that says if we are

914
00:47:45,880 --> 00:47:47,520
faithless, he will remain
faithful.

915
00:47:47,720 --> 00:47:50,240
So in other words, he will never
let you go.

916
00:47:50,240 --> 00:47:53,360
One of Matt's favorite doctrines
was called Perseverance of the

917
00:47:53,360 --> 00:47:54,520
Saints.
Now, I don't know if you're

918
00:47:54,520 --> 00:47:56,560
Calvinist or not, and we don't
have to get into that.

919
00:47:56,840 --> 00:48:00,080
You know, I hate these labels
and stuff, but it's like I, I

920
00:48:00,080 --> 00:48:04,000
just, I believe that, you know,
once you are saved, the Lord

921
00:48:04,200 --> 00:48:08,560
will hold you and he will bring
you safely into his Kingdom.

922
00:48:08,560 --> 00:48:12,360
And I think that's one of the
most assuring verses and ideas

923
00:48:13,320 --> 00:48:16,840
in Christianity because we
suffer a lot in this life and it

924
00:48:16,840 --> 00:48:19,240
is sometimes it is very hard to
trust God.

925
00:48:19,440 --> 00:48:24,480
It's very easy to turn away.
And so God just clung on to me

926
00:48:24,480 --> 00:48:27,200
the whole way, whether it was
through Matt or through his Holy

927
00:48:27,200 --> 00:48:30,000
Spirit or through the loving,
tender hands of my mom nursing

928
00:48:30,000 --> 00:48:32,760
me on a bed.
He just never let me go.

929
00:48:32,800 --> 00:48:36,720
And so I don't think I would be.
I mean, frankly, I feel like I

930
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,840
would probably be, I don't want
to use the word suicidal because

931
00:48:39,840 --> 00:48:42,280
it's so triggering, but it's
like if I weren't a Christian

932
00:48:42,760 --> 00:48:45,680
going through eight years of
your brain spinning like you, I

933
00:48:45,680 --> 00:48:47,840
look great now and I'm not
trying to play a pretty party,

934
00:48:47,840 --> 00:48:50,040
but it's very painful day in,
day out.

935
00:48:50,040 --> 00:48:53,360
And so if I didn't have the hope
of Christ and that joy that he

936
00:48:53,360 --> 00:48:56,920
gives me every day that he's
walking with me, I don't think I

937
00:48:56,920 --> 00:49:00,000
would make it from an emotional
standpoint, no matter how much

938
00:49:00,000 --> 00:49:03,440
therapy you go through.
So I I credit the fact that I'm

939
00:49:03,440 --> 00:49:06,760
still a Christian today is only
because the Holy Spirit has

940
00:49:06,840 --> 00:49:10,280
really walked with me and
sustained me this whole way.

941
00:49:10,560 --> 00:49:14,760
So all glory to God on that.
Amen.

942
00:49:15,040 --> 00:49:20,440
Praise God, you said the hope of
God or hope?

943
00:49:20,440 --> 00:49:24,360
Hope of hope of Christ.
Excuse me, Define that for us.

944
00:49:26,080 --> 00:49:32,080
I think it's the idea that he is
with us in our suffering and he

945
00:49:32,080 --> 00:49:34,320
identifies with us in our
sufferings.

946
00:49:34,360 --> 00:49:37,640
Like there's a verse where Paul
says we are participating in the

947
00:49:37,640 --> 00:49:40,720
sufferings of Christ so that we
can participate in the glories

948
00:49:40,720 --> 00:49:43,160
of Christ.
There is hope in Christ because

949
00:49:43,200 --> 00:49:46,280
A, we have all of eternity
without suffering and to live

950
00:49:46,280 --> 00:49:48,920
with Christ and our loved ones
in Christ forever.

951
00:49:48,920 --> 00:49:51,960
So it's just this powerful hope
of we really are more than

952
00:49:51,960 --> 00:49:54,080
conquerors.
Like, even though I've lost

953
00:49:54,080 --> 00:49:57,360
every bucket in every dream, I
mean, I never imagined I'd be on

954
00:49:57,360 --> 00:50:00,000
a podcast.
I mean, this is, you know, it's

955
00:50:00,000 --> 00:50:02,440
just again, back to the strange
things.

956
00:50:02,440 --> 00:50:06,240
Like I, you know, for my life, I
either wanted to be a lawyer and

957
00:50:06,240 --> 00:50:10,720
pop out four babies, you know,
or, you know, I wanted to just

958
00:50:10,720 --> 00:50:13,320
whatever, be a housewife and
love my husband.

959
00:50:13,320 --> 00:50:16,800
And yet here I am as a widow.
And yet God is using my talent

960
00:50:16,800 --> 00:50:19,240
for performing and I love
speaking and stuff.

961
00:50:19,240 --> 00:50:21,200
And I'm with you and encouraging
others.

962
00:50:21,200 --> 00:50:24,480
So again, it's just wild how
that's the hope we have in

963
00:50:24,480 --> 00:50:26,960
Christ.
He will use even the ugliest

964
00:50:26,960 --> 00:50:30,120
things, even me on a bedpan.
And he is using right now, years

965
00:50:30,120 --> 00:50:32,120
later to encourage, I hope to
encourage up.

966
00:50:32,440 --> 00:50:36,040
I hope I'm not, you know, making
others feel scared that they're

967
00:50:36,040 --> 00:50:38,160
going to be bitter the minute
they start suffering.

968
00:50:38,160 --> 00:50:41,320
But I tell you that, so you know
that you're not the only one.

969
00:50:41,320 --> 00:50:43,800
You know what I'm saying?
Like, and God will take you to

970
00:50:43,800 --> 00:50:45,840
the other side.
You know, Jesus told the

971
00:50:45,840 --> 00:50:49,920
disciples during the storm, I'm
or actually sorry, this is from

972
00:50:49,920 --> 00:50:51,480
a devotional.
I remember from years back.

973
00:50:51,480 --> 00:50:54,400
There was this devotional where
it said Jesus didn't say, let's

974
00:50:54,400 --> 00:50:56,040
go to the middle of the lake to
drown.

975
00:50:56,040 --> 00:50:59,440
It was no, let's head over to
the other side, right?

976
00:50:59,800 --> 00:51:03,240
So, and a little gospel there.
Yeah, but along the way,

977
00:51:03,240 --> 00:51:06,840
obviously they were worried that
they were going to drown.

978
00:51:07,560 --> 00:51:11,440
Yeah, I mean, Nick, honestly, I
never, I never liked that story

979
00:51:11,440 --> 00:51:14,120
either because I'm like, Jesus,
why are you sleeping, man?

980
00:51:14,120 --> 00:51:17,120
Like, and then he yells at them
because they're, he's like, you

981
00:51:17,120 --> 00:51:20,120
have little faith.
It's like, do you realize that

982
00:51:20,120 --> 00:51:22,040
the boat is about to flip over
Lord?

983
00:51:22,040 --> 00:51:24,400
Like give us some like, cut us
some slack, man.

984
00:51:24,640 --> 00:51:27,960
And so it's almost, have you
considered that the idea that

985
00:51:27,960 --> 00:51:30,640
God's not getting mad at them
for being scared, but he's

986
00:51:30,640 --> 00:51:33,040
saying you have little faith.
I don't know.

987
00:51:33,040 --> 00:51:36,640
That story is wild.
Like God expects almost radical

988
00:51:36,640 --> 00:51:38,480
faith from us.
He doesn't demand it.

989
00:51:38,480 --> 00:51:41,440
He knows we're flesh and he is
compassionate and patient with

990
00:51:41,440 --> 00:51:44,840
us, as I've testified today.
But if we want to get to a

991
00:51:44,840 --> 00:51:48,120
Christ like point, it's like he
wants us to just have childlike

992
00:51:48,120 --> 00:51:50,440
faith.
But he and even Jesus, I mean,

993
00:51:50,440 --> 00:51:52,600
just to temper that, I know I'm
talking both sides of my mouth,

994
00:51:52,600 --> 00:51:55,960
but even Jesus was scared.
He was bleeding, he was saying

995
00:51:56,720 --> 00:51:58,280
take this cup for me.
So I don't know.

996
00:51:58,320 --> 00:52:01,160
There is this sort of tension in
Christianity where we are

997
00:52:01,160 --> 00:52:03,240
allowed to lament.
It's all over the Psalms.

998
00:52:03,560 --> 00:52:06,240
But we are also called to trust
him.

999
00:52:06,240 --> 00:52:08,680
So I don't know.
I've gone on too long now.

1000
00:52:09,480 --> 00:52:15,280
Well, I think that tension is,
to me, maybe the other side of

1001
00:52:15,280 --> 00:52:20,200
the coin that includes the
mysteries of God.

1002
00:52:20,560 --> 00:52:27,120
We just don't get all of it.
He never will until perhaps

1003
00:52:27,120 --> 00:52:29,000
eternity.
We shall see.

1004
00:52:29,440 --> 00:52:32,440
But so why do you think Jesus
told the disciples in the boat?

1005
00:52:32,440 --> 00:52:34,760
Like, why?
Why do you have such little

1006
00:52:34,760 --> 00:52:36,400
faith?
I mean, he literally reprimands

1007
00:52:36,400 --> 00:52:37,760
them.
Look at it in the Gospels today.

1008
00:52:37,760 --> 00:52:39,600
He even uses like an exclamation
point.

1009
00:52:40,280 --> 00:52:44,920
Yeah, Laura, honestly, I have
not put a lot of thought into

1010
00:52:44,920 --> 00:52:47,080
that one.
So I, I don't know, like.

1011
00:52:47,080 --> 00:52:49,960
It's a good question, right?
Super familiar, of course, with

1012
00:52:49,960 --> 00:52:52,120
the verse that you're talking
about, you know what I mean?

1013
00:52:52,160 --> 00:52:54,480
But yeah.
He's tough on that.

1014
00:52:55,000 --> 00:52:58,560
What I have found though, and I
always encourage people to read

1015
00:52:58,560 --> 00:53:04,520
their Bible every single today
that God gives them.

1016
00:53:04,800 --> 00:53:06,320
Oh, that's a good way of putting
it today.

1017
00:53:06,320 --> 00:53:10,120
And the reason I put it that way
is because I think it should be

1018
00:53:10,120 --> 00:53:15,840
a decision, not a goal.
Meaning you decide, hey, today

1019
00:53:16,400 --> 00:53:20,000
I'm going to read 1 chapter of
the Bible because he's given me

1020
00:53:20,000 --> 00:53:23,600
today, right?
Tomorrow you read 1 chapter of

1021
00:53:23,600 --> 00:53:27,320
the Bible because he's giving
you today because it's a goal.

1022
00:53:27,320 --> 00:53:29,480
It's very easy to like OK, I'm
going to I'm going to I'm going

1023
00:53:29,480 --> 00:53:32,360
to read every day this week.
Well, then things get really

1024
00:53:32,360 --> 00:53:34,840
busy.
You miss your goal and then

1025
00:53:34,840 --> 00:53:37,720
you're like, I missed the goal.
You know what I mean?

1026
00:53:38,280 --> 00:53:40,360
So I'm not big into goals in
that sense.

1027
00:53:40,640 --> 00:53:43,440
I'm big into a decision.
And what I always suggest, this

1028
00:53:43,440 --> 00:53:48,240
is where I'm going, OK, is
starting in Matthew because you

1029
00:53:48,240 --> 00:53:53,640
get right to Jesus, OK.
Then by the time you've gotten

1030
00:53:53,640 --> 00:53:57,960
all the way through Revelation,
you have built the consistency.

1031
00:53:58,320 --> 00:54:01,480
And so books that you don't
think are going to be

1032
00:54:01,480 --> 00:54:06,480
interesting, like Leviticus or
Numbers end up being massively

1033
00:54:06,480 --> 00:54:10,760
interesting to you because you
you are already seasoned at

1034
00:54:10,760 --> 00:54:13,600
reading your Bible, OK?
And there's just some mind

1035
00:54:13,600 --> 00:54:16,960
bending stories in in like
Numbers, for example, that I

1036
00:54:16,960 --> 00:54:21,080
guarantee you people have never
read, have never even heard of

1037
00:54:21,320 --> 00:54:23,160
if they have not read it.
OK, wow.

1038
00:54:24,120 --> 00:54:26,840
Oh, it's, it's on.
I I confess I haven't read

1039
00:54:26,840 --> 00:54:28,640
number I.
Almost said I almost said

1040
00:54:28,640 --> 00:54:30,560
unbelievable, but it's
incredible.

1041
00:54:30,920 --> 00:54:36,600
That's my Freudian slap.
I've had to unwind the the the

1042
00:54:36,600 --> 00:54:40,040
cultural oh man, it was
unbelievable which just happened

1043
00:54:40,360 --> 00:54:44,280
and rewire and clearly I'm still
in the process of rewiring that

1044
00:54:44,280 --> 00:54:46,280
too.
It was incredible what just

1045
00:54:46,280 --> 00:54:49,280
happened.
But back to my point of Matthew,

1046
00:54:49,720 --> 00:54:55,360
you're spot on.
Jesus says wild stuff, wild

1047
00:54:55,360 --> 00:54:58,280
stuff.
And a lot of it, in my

1048
00:54:58,280 --> 00:55:01,280
experience, isn't covered in the
modern day church because it's

1049
00:55:01,280 --> 00:55:03,680
kind of wild and people don't
have all the answers to it.

1050
00:55:03,800 --> 00:55:06,720
When did you last hear a sermon
on Take Up Your Cross?

1051
00:55:06,720 --> 00:55:09,280
I mean, seriously.
I mean, we probably go to

1052
00:55:09,480 --> 00:55:12,120
churches with solid theology.
And, and I don't want to say

1053
00:55:12,120 --> 00:55:15,000
solid as if I'm judgmental, but
it is a problem when pastors

1054
00:55:15,000 --> 00:55:17,200
don't preach, you know, the
harder doctrines.

1055
00:55:18,120 --> 00:55:20,880
Yeah, and that's again, to your
point, that's that's exactly

1056
00:55:20,880 --> 00:55:25,480
where I'm like start in Matthew
because man, you get to some

1057
00:55:25,480 --> 00:55:28,760
stuff and you're like, whoa,
like one of my favorite verses

1058
00:55:28,760 --> 00:55:31,240
is Luke 646.
And it's one of my favorite

1059
00:55:31,240 --> 00:55:35,240
verses because it was
essentially a game changer.

1060
00:55:35,240 --> 00:55:39,480
And it's where Jesus is saying
to his disciples, why do you

1061
00:55:39,480 --> 00:55:42,200
call me Lord?
Lord and don't do what I say.

1062
00:55:43,720 --> 00:55:48,320
And the Holy Spirit very much
had that stick in me like stuck

1063
00:55:48,520 --> 00:55:53,200
in me, stuck in me.
And I'm like, whoa, I need to I

1064
00:55:53,200 --> 00:55:56,840
need to deal with this.
Like I, I have to actually

1065
00:55:56,840 --> 00:56:00,000
respond to this particular
question.

1066
00:56:00,000 --> 00:56:03,360
Why do you call me Lord, Lord
and don't do what I say in my

1067
00:56:03,360 --> 00:56:06,280
relationship with him?
There's actually a whole when

1068
00:56:06,280 --> 00:56:10,040
you look episode about that.
Oh, wow, I digress.

1069
00:56:11,000 --> 00:56:13,880
Anywho, this has been fabulous,
my friend.

1070
00:56:13,880 --> 00:56:18,280
And we need to land this plane
with the questions that we ask

1071
00:56:18,280 --> 00:56:21,440
all of our guests.
And it's so interesting because

1072
00:56:21,760 --> 00:56:25,200
you have used the word
coincidence many times

1073
00:56:25,200 --> 00:56:27,600
throughout our conversations.
And you've also talked about God

1074
00:56:27,600 --> 00:56:31,360
doing all kinds of neat things.
So I'm super excited to ask you

1075
00:56:31,360 --> 00:56:35,840
the question of of all of these
things that have happened,

1076
00:56:35,840 --> 00:56:39,680
Laura, particularly, right, the
neurological disease that has

1077
00:56:39,680 --> 00:56:42,800
been unexplained, right, Matt
coming into your life, Matt

1078
00:56:42,800 --> 00:56:46,640
dying, all of that.
Is it coincidence that those

1079
00:56:46,640 --> 00:56:52,240
things occurred or is it God?
It absolutely has to be God.

1080
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:55,600
I mean, I could not write my own
love story if I tried.

1081
00:56:55,600 --> 00:56:58,360
I mean, again, I was literally
like the bedridden bride.

1082
00:56:58,360 --> 00:57:01,000
You know, it's like of all those
situations in which you could

1083
00:57:01,000 --> 00:57:05,200
possibly find a spouse, God
brought the man to me when I was

1084
00:57:05,200 --> 00:57:08,240
at my lowest and desperately
needed someone to comfort me.

1085
00:57:08,240 --> 00:57:11,200
And Matt needed someone to
comfort him because he was going

1086
00:57:11,200 --> 00:57:14,720
through cancer.
So it's just, I mean, looking

1087
00:57:14,720 --> 00:57:17,840
and looking back, even on the
neurological illness, like I now

1088
00:57:17,840 --> 00:57:20,920
believe that God, I mean, I've
always believed his sovereign,

1089
00:57:20,920 --> 00:57:23,680
but it's so clear that this was
part of his will for my life.

1090
00:57:23,680 --> 00:57:26,840
Because I would not be, I
wouldn't have written this book

1091
00:57:26,960 --> 00:57:29,880
and I wouldn't have, I wouldn't
be here testifying to your

1092
00:57:29,880 --> 00:57:33,120
audience about how God has been
faithful to me in the fire, just

1093
00:57:33,120 --> 00:57:35,360
like he was with Shadrach,
Meshach, and Abednego.

1094
00:57:35,360 --> 00:57:39,720
Like God redeems our sufferings.
And so he intentionally allows

1095
00:57:39,720 --> 00:57:44,880
it for his purposes.
So I even Matt's death, I told

1096
00:57:44,880 --> 00:57:48,040
you we discussed it already on
the Genesis 5020 verse the

1097
00:57:48,040 --> 00:57:50,360
morning Matt died.
Like you can't make that stuff

1098
00:57:50,360 --> 00:57:52,280
up.
It was a wink and a nod from God

1099
00:57:52,280 --> 00:57:56,760
that this is there is a purpose.
I am still in control.

1100
00:57:57,280 --> 00:58:02,200
And so I absolutely it's God and
not coincidence.

1101
00:58:02,200 --> 00:58:05,240
I just answer it with an
enthusiastic yes and a thumbs

1102
00:58:05,240 --> 00:58:07,840
up.
Awesome.

1103
00:58:08,000 --> 00:58:12,240
Well, how has your life changed
as a result of all of this?

1104
00:58:12,240 --> 00:58:14,200
And I know we've alluded to some
of it.

1105
00:58:14,200 --> 00:58:17,680
We certainly talked about some
theological changes, but perhaps

1106
00:58:17,680 --> 00:58:20,480
round it all out for us.
How has life changed for you?

1107
00:58:21,480 --> 00:58:25,200
I mean, my outlook, I'm a
totally different person.

1108
00:58:25,200 --> 00:58:29,320
I mean, you can see, you can see
how I'm at the spiritual

1109
00:58:29,320 --> 00:58:33,400
maturity now where I can
actually say God is good, even

1110
00:58:33,400 --> 00:58:36,760
though I'm still bedridden like
I'd say 60% of the day now.

1111
00:58:36,760 --> 00:58:40,960
Like I'm, you know, and so it's
like to change from who I was to

1112
00:58:40,960 --> 00:58:44,880
who I am now to being way more,
I mean, I'm not that I'm so

1113
00:58:44,880 --> 00:58:47,640
Christ like, but to being way
more at the goal of trying to

1114
00:58:47,640 --> 00:58:50,240
push towards being Christ like
rather than, you know, the

1115
00:58:50,240 --> 00:58:53,760
spoiled brat of wanting certain
sets of it, of earthly

1116
00:58:53,760 --> 00:58:56,440
blessings.
Like I'm just totally changed,

1117
00:58:56,440 --> 00:58:58,320
you know, like, and this book
even changed me.

1118
00:58:58,320 --> 00:59:00,880
I think God called me to write
it in large part for me to

1119
00:59:00,880 --> 00:59:04,600
testify to myself.
Look at how I have sustained

1120
00:59:04,600 --> 00:59:06,280
you.
And again, I'm a lawyer, so I

1121
00:59:06,280 --> 00:59:09,160
had kept evidence journals even
as I was bed when and I would

1122
00:59:09,160 --> 00:59:12,080
ask my mom to write down every
time the Holy Spirit spoke to

1123
00:59:12,080 --> 00:59:13,760
me.
And so I already had the

1124
00:59:13,760 --> 00:59:16,960
receipts and was ready to write
this account for the Lord.

1125
00:59:17,280 --> 00:59:19,800
And so that's why I think my
memoir has touched so many

1126
00:59:19,800 --> 00:59:22,040
people, and not in a pompous
way, but because they're

1127
00:59:22,040 --> 00:59:25,520
actually seeing like she how
could she remember all this?

1128
00:59:25,520 --> 00:59:27,960
Like this must be real because
do you understand what I'm

1129
00:59:27,960 --> 00:59:29,760
saying?
Yeah.

1130
00:59:30,120 --> 00:59:33,800
Yeah, well, you've mentioned the
book a number of different

1131
00:59:33,800 --> 00:59:37,320
times, Singing Through Fire.
Tell us a tiny bit more about it

1132
00:59:37,320 --> 00:59:42,000
and where people can grab it.
Yes, so this is my memoir about

1133
00:59:42,040 --> 00:59:45,560
the last eight years of my life.
And it's about me walking

1134
00:59:45,560 --> 00:59:48,120
through the suffering and I
wanted it to be.

1135
00:59:48,120 --> 00:59:50,200
It's also a very romantic love
story.

1136
00:59:50,200 --> 00:59:52,880
Like I wrote it because I, I'm
an, I'm actually an actor.

1137
00:59:52,880 --> 00:59:55,920
Like I love acting and singing.
Like I grew up doing musicals.

1138
00:59:55,920 --> 00:59:58,200
You can kind of tell 'cause I
love like having big facial

1139
00:59:58,200 --> 01:00:00,640
expressions.
And so I wrote this book kind of

1140
01:00:00,640 --> 01:00:03,640
like a screenplay because I
wanted it to be very interactive

1141
01:00:03,640 --> 01:00:06,680
for my reader, like to jump into
like, how did you and Matt fall

1142
01:00:06,680 --> 01:00:07,920
in love?
Like what on earth?

1143
01:00:07,920 --> 01:00:10,600
Like what was it like on a bed
for three years without being

1144
01:00:10,600 --> 01:00:13,520
able to open your eyes?
Like just all of the suffering.

1145
01:00:13,520 --> 01:00:16,600
But I also, I didn't want it to
be a, a pompous piece about, oh,

1146
01:00:16,600 --> 01:00:18,760
this is my life story.
Like read me.

1147
01:00:18,760 --> 01:00:22,400
You know, it was, it was more
about I wanted it to be a job

1148
01:00:22,400 --> 01:00:25,440
like inquiry because the last
eight years has been a wrestling

1149
01:00:25,440 --> 01:00:28,440
match between me and the Lord as
to why he allows suffering.

1150
01:00:28,960 --> 01:00:32,600
And so in the book, I included
every surprising insight that

1151
01:00:32,600 --> 01:00:35,600
the Lord has given me on
different verses in the Bible

1152
01:00:35,600 --> 01:00:37,960
and what they meant for our
sufferings.

1153
01:00:38,280 --> 01:00:42,240
I mean, have you ever considered
like Second Corinthians 417,

1154
01:00:42,240 --> 01:00:45,840
which says our light and
momentary troubles are achieving

1155
01:00:45,840 --> 01:00:49,200
for us an eternal glory that far
outweighs them all?

1156
01:00:49,200 --> 01:00:52,960
Like just think about the punch
packed in that like our

1157
01:00:52,960 --> 01:00:55,640
sufferings are actually
achieving something.

1158
01:00:55,640 --> 01:00:58,800
They are not in vain.
And so and, and I, I did a lot

1159
01:00:58,800 --> 01:01:01,720
of research on this verse and
listen to countless sermons.

1160
01:01:01,720 --> 01:01:04,360
In other words, the Lord has
really enlightened my eyes and

1161
01:01:04,360 --> 01:01:07,000
everything I learned.
I packed into this book because

1162
01:01:07,000 --> 01:01:09,640
I wanted to encourage.
I, I think God was calling me to

1163
01:01:09,640 --> 01:01:12,560
encourage other believers.
Like look at me, I went through

1164
01:01:12,560 --> 01:01:14,200
the highs and lows and the
bitterness and whatever.

1165
01:01:14,200 --> 01:01:17,440
And yet I'm still standing firm
in Christ, if you will.

1166
01:01:17,720 --> 01:01:21,040
And no matter what you go
through, you will also, whether

1167
01:01:21,040 --> 01:01:23,840
it's losing a spouse, God
forbid, losing a child or

1168
01:01:23,840 --> 01:01:26,040
whatever.
I just wanted it to be a

1169
01:01:26,040 --> 01:01:27,720
testimony.
And I'm not doing this for the

1170
01:01:27,720 --> 01:01:28,920
sales.
It's like, who cares?

1171
01:01:28,960 --> 01:01:32,760
Like, you know, it's about, you
know, bringing glory to God.

1172
01:01:33,000 --> 01:01:35,240
And honestly, it's kind of like
a forget you Satan.

1173
01:01:35,280 --> 01:01:37,600
You know, I could use choice
words, you know, I mean, I

1174
01:01:37,600 --> 01:01:40,040
could, you know, it's like, but
I don't want to embarrass

1175
01:01:40,040 --> 01:01:41,920
myself.
But it's like, it's almost like

1176
01:01:42,480 --> 01:01:44,760
I look at you.
God has made me fruitful in the

1177
01:01:44,760 --> 01:01:46,480
land of my affliction.
You thought you were going to

1178
01:01:46,480 --> 01:01:48,800
put me on a bedpan.
And yet I got married.

1179
01:01:48,920 --> 01:01:52,360
I married a godly man and we had
a ministry and God is using it

1180
01:01:52,360 --> 01:01:55,120
for good.
So it just, God redeems

1181
01:01:55,120 --> 01:01:56,960
suffering, as trite as it
sounds.

1182
01:01:57,000 --> 01:02:00,400
I'm telling you in the fire that
he does so anyway.

1183
01:02:00,560 --> 01:02:02,040
And this book is a testament to
that.

1184
01:02:02,040 --> 01:02:04,320
And you can buy it on Amazon.
It's available on all

1185
01:02:04,320 --> 01:02:07,920
international Amazon sites.
It's called Singing Through Fire

1186
01:02:07,920 --> 01:02:11,400
by Laura Silverman.
Yeah, wow.

1187
01:02:12,520 --> 01:02:15,960
And that's Laura Lara, for those
of you that are listening.

1188
01:02:15,960 --> 01:02:19,400
And we'll have links to all of
that in the show notes and in

1189
01:02:19,400 --> 01:02:23,000
the description.
Laura, thank you.

1190
01:02:23,800 --> 01:02:27,320
What a pleasure.
Praise God that you are sitting

1191
01:02:27,320 --> 01:02:29,960
up.
Praise God that you testify.

1192
01:02:31,200 --> 01:02:44,000
And what a what a unique calling
to be a former attorney who

1193
01:02:44,000 --> 01:02:45,920
testifies.
Yeah.

1194
01:02:45,920 --> 01:02:48,520
Praise God.
Thank you.

1195
01:02:48,520 --> 01:02:52,200
That's really that hit me right
there cuz like I was on this

1196
01:02:52,200 --> 01:02:55,080
other podcast last week and the
woman was like, it feels like

1197
01:02:55,080 --> 01:02:57,920
you're prosecuting the most
important case, which is telling

1198
01:02:57,920 --> 01:03:00,200
people that God is good amid
suffering.

1199
01:03:00,200 --> 01:03:03,680
So I just really feel like he
spoke through you right there.

1200
01:03:03,680 --> 01:03:06,800
You know, it's like God never
wastes he.

1201
01:03:06,800 --> 01:03:11,920
He shows us that he is using.
My desire is in that way still.

1202
01:03:12,680 --> 01:03:14,520
So thank you.
Just bless, Yeah.

1203
01:03:14,760 --> 01:03:16,480
Yeah.
Praise God.

1204
01:03:16,480 --> 01:03:20,920
Praise God.
Oh go God.

1205
01:03:21,080 --> 01:03:24,640
Seriously.
I mean, isn't that the glory of

1206
01:03:24,640 --> 01:03:27,160
God that we could still be
smiling and praising in the

1207
01:03:27,160 --> 01:03:28,840
midst of this?
Like, atheists look at us and

1208
01:03:28,840 --> 01:03:30,040
say, oh, they're a bunch of
loonies.

1209
01:03:30,040 --> 01:03:33,200
But it's like, no, this proves
he is real.

1210
01:03:33,200 --> 01:03:36,240
Like if it wasn't real, you and
I are very smart people.

1211
01:03:36,240 --> 01:03:38,920
Your audience is brilliant.
We we wouldn't be here

1212
01:03:38,920 --> 01:03:41,240
discussing like unless Jesus
Christ is real.

1213
01:03:41,240 --> 01:03:43,400
We would have given up on
Christianity long ago.

1214
01:03:45,000 --> 01:03:48,280
IIA 100 percent, 100% there's.
Too much evil in the world.

1215
01:03:48,400 --> 01:03:49,960
There's too much evil in the
world.

1216
01:03:50,480 --> 01:03:52,360
Yep.
And some of the things that

1217
01:03:52,360 --> 01:03:55,160
you've described that I know
that I've experienced in my own

1218
01:03:55,160 --> 01:03:57,360
life, I'm like, man, this is
crazy.

1219
01:03:57,880 --> 01:04:02,040
Like, this is crazy.
And then I'm like, but I've got

1220
01:04:02,040 --> 01:04:05,040
all this evidence of the fact
that he's real, that he's

1221
01:04:05,040 --> 01:04:08,720
communicated with me, that I'm
not making this up, you know?

1222
01:04:09,240 --> 01:04:13,680
And you're like, OK, well, then
I have to believe that he does

1223
01:04:13,680 --> 01:04:15,960
what he says he's going to do.
And then I look at all the

1224
01:04:15,960 --> 01:04:17,520
mountains of evidence that I
have.

1225
01:04:17,520 --> 01:04:21,640
That's a phrase that I love.
I have mountains of evidence, my

1226
01:04:21,640 --> 01:04:26,440
own personal set of evidence.
My wife has hers as a family, we

1227
01:04:26,440 --> 01:04:27,880
have ours.
You know what I mean?

1228
01:04:27,880 --> 01:04:30,080
It's mostly mom and dad just
because of the ages of our

1229
01:04:30,080 --> 01:04:33,960
children, right.
But like, and, and so I'm able

1230
01:04:33,960 --> 01:04:36,920
to go, OK, yeah, that's not so
crazy anymore.

1231
01:04:37,760 --> 01:04:39,880
So crazy.
Felt crazy for a second.

1232
01:04:40,520 --> 01:04:44,560
But then when I can, I, I, I put
that against all of what I know

1233
01:04:44,560 --> 01:04:48,240
about him.
And there's an absolutely

1234
01:04:48,240 --> 01:04:55,200
awesome, awesome guy, Pastor
Tony, who was on one of our

1235
01:04:55,200 --> 01:04:58,720
episodes already.
And he said that in his church,

1236
01:04:58,720 --> 01:05:00,560
they have a phrase that goes
like this.

1237
01:05:01,520 --> 01:05:04,680
I can no longer doubt him
because I know too much about

1238
01:05:04,680 --> 01:05:08,160
him.
And I was like, man, that's

1239
01:05:08,160 --> 01:05:10,240
good.
That's really good.

1240
01:05:10,240 --> 01:05:15,480
We've started to use that as
well at Team Weinholt Land and

1241
01:05:16,000 --> 01:05:19,840
yeah, it's like it's IIA 100%
get it, like it.

1242
01:05:20,040 --> 01:05:23,720
It on the surface doesn't make
any sense.

1243
01:05:24,240 --> 01:05:28,240
But when you have a real
relationship with King Jesus,

1244
01:05:28,560 --> 01:05:31,640
when you hear from the Holy
Spirit because you are in

1245
01:05:31,640 --> 01:05:34,440
relationship with Him.
And I think this is a big thing.

1246
01:05:34,440 --> 01:05:37,200
I don't want to preach here to
folks, but I know a lot of folks

1247
01:05:37,200 --> 01:05:39,200
that have asked me, well, how do
you hear?

1248
01:05:39,200 --> 01:05:44,160
I've never heard and in no way,
shape or form my suggesting I'm

1249
01:05:44,160 --> 01:05:47,360
better.
But for sure, I know for a fact

1250
01:05:47,360 --> 01:05:52,880
that when I'm in relationship
with Him, when I seek Him, His,

1251
01:05:53,080 --> 01:05:57,440
His word tells me, seek and you
will find knock and the door

1252
01:05:57,440 --> 01:05:58,840
will be open.
Right?

1253
01:05:58,840 --> 01:06:02,680
We're we're encouraged in
scripture to seek him earnestly.

1254
01:06:02,920 --> 01:06:04,600
Even when I do that, he's
responsive.

1255
01:06:04,600 --> 01:06:07,320
And when I don't, because I've
been plenty of times where I'm

1256
01:06:07,320 --> 01:06:10,800
just like, I've thrown some
words, thrown some words up.

1257
01:06:13,600 --> 01:06:16,080
He doesn't respond to that
because he's after our hearts.

1258
01:06:16,080 --> 01:06:20,200
He literally has everything,
everything he could ever

1259
01:06:20,200 --> 01:06:22,320
possibly need or want.
He has it.

1260
01:06:23,920 --> 01:06:26,960
He's only after our hearts.
So if we just give him our mind

1261
01:06:26,960 --> 01:06:29,880
in terms of like, oh, you know,
or, or our thoughts right in,

1262
01:06:29,880 --> 01:06:34,440
in, in a prayer, I don't think
he's overly interested in that.

1263
01:06:34,960 --> 01:06:37,200
Man, that's convicting.
Yeah, and we give him our

1264
01:06:37,200 --> 01:06:39,520
hearts.
That's what he's after.

1265
01:06:39,880 --> 01:06:43,160
He didn't die to save our
brains, as brilliant as yours

1266
01:06:43,160 --> 01:06:44,440
is.
You know what I mean.

1267
01:06:44,440 --> 01:06:46,920
He died to save our souls.
Yeah.

1268
01:06:47,360 --> 01:06:50,920
It's wonderful.
Wonderful, just like this

1269
01:06:50,920 --> 01:06:52,840
conversation has been.
So thank.

1270
01:06:52,840 --> 01:06:57,680
You really truly been an
absolute pleasure chatting with

1271
01:06:57,680 --> 01:07:02,160
you here on When You Look, so
thank you for testifying about

1272
01:07:02,160 --> 01:07:04,480
the King.
Thank you so much Mick.

1273
01:07:04,480 --> 01:07:06,720
It was an honor and all glory to
God.

1274
01:07:10,160 --> 01:07:15,400
Was it coincidence or God?
You decide for yourself, but I

1275
01:07:15,400 --> 01:07:19,200
believe you just heard a story
for His glory.

1276
01:07:20,000 --> 01:07:24,240
When You Look is powered by
stories just like this, and

1277
01:07:24,240 --> 01:07:28,680
yours could be next.
Go to whenyoulook.com/be a Guest

1278
01:07:28,920 --> 01:07:31,120
or use the link in the
description below.

1279
01:07:31,680 --> 01:07:36,000
Drop us a comment and share this
episode with somebody that needs

1280
01:07:36,000 --> 01:07:38,960
it.
Until next time, thanks a bunch

1281
01:07:38,960 --> 01:07:41,760
for listening and watching, and
God bless.