Heartbreak, Long Waiting, & Restoration | Cathy Garland | 047

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One of the things I knew was
that I was not so special that I

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was going to be the first person
he let down, or the first person

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he promised something to and
didn't come through for, or the

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first person that he lied to, or
the first person that he failed.

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I'm not that special for the God
of the universe for the very

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first time to drop the ball with
me.

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Welcome to When You Look, where
ordinary people share their

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extraordinary experiences and
you get to decide, was it

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coincidence or God?
Kathy, welcome to When You Look.

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We are delighted to have you on
the show, truly.

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I'm excited.
I'm really excited.

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This is.
I can't wait to get to it.

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Me as well.
So we've got to hold our horses

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for just a second though,
because while your story is

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amazing and outstanding, we have
to get to know you a little bit.

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So tell us a little bit about
yourself.

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You know, my mission is to help
women rediscover who they are,

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who God sees them, that he knows
them, that he's revealing

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himself, pursuing their hearts.
And so to that end, I'm a

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mother, I'm a wife, I'm a
teacher of the Bible.

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I would call myself a Bible
nerd, you know, self-described

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Bible nerd, Hebrew nerd.
You can throw that in there too,

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because there's nothing more
interesting than figuring that

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out.
And so I'm always teaching, I'm

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always writing, I write books, I
speak to women's groups, I lead

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Bible studies, talk about
revival.

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I call myself a revival watcher.
I'm a suffering coach.

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So if someone is suffering or
has been through suffering,

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they'll send them to me and say,
hey, go to Kathy, she'll help

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you through suffering.
So all those things together,

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basically to help that mission
come to pass, which is to help

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women see themselves the way God
sees them, and to know beyond a

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shadow of a doubt that he is
pursuing them.

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Yeah.
And I think what we're going to

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hear is how the trials in your
life have really brought you to

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this particular mission.
Is that a fair assessment?

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Fair assessment.
You can't be a suffering coach

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if you haven't suffered.
Yeah, well, I think that's awful

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to hear.
I had to pause there for a

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second and think about what did
I want to say, right.

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But we know that God works for
good, so he's got all of that.

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So I think that's a great
foreshadow.

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And let's let's jump right into
things.

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So give us some back story and
then start to walk us through

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life as it went for you.
You know, I grew up in church

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and I followed the Lord as well
as I could until I was about 13.

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Then I sort of deconstructed and
then reconstructed and built a

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faith that was alive and was
more based on what I had proven

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to myself over and over again
rather than my parents, you

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know, story and my parents
religion, though I love and

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honor my parents walk with God
because it was their authentic

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with God that made it possible
for me to do that in the safety

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of the home.
I was homeschooled.

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I know your kids are
homeschooled.

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I had plenty of opportunity to
ask a zillion questions and, and

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I was able to question
everything without them getting

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upset, you know, so that helped.
And as I built my faith back, I

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met a man very young.
I was, it was in the purity

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culture, you know, we, we got
married young.

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We, we did the true love weights
thing and that didn't work out.

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And so 4 1/2 years later, my
first husband divorced me.

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And during that time, I had lost
a child in miscarriage.

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After that, I met another man
who I loved, and he broke up

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with me three times.
We can talk about that.

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Another time he went after this
woman that he thought was a

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woman of his dreams and broke my
heart.

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And I had to cling to who God
was.

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And sometimes that involved
sitting down at my desk or

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kneeling at my desk and getting
enough from the Holy Spirit to

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actually answer emails or go to
a meeting or something like

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that, and then running out and
then going back to my office,

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shutting my door and doing it
again.

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Like it was hard.
He broke my heart.

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But then I later married him.
So that's a story.

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And I lost a child in
miscarriage during that first.

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That's the first marriage and
the second marriage.

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And then I waited 10 years for
the birth of my son and, and I

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have broken my neck twice, not
once, twice.

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I mean, most people, they're
like, oh, I broke my neck once.

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And that's like, oh, that's
pretty good.

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No, I broke it twice.
You know, so, and in any of

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these things that I just
mentioned, it's, it's kind of a

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list.
The key thing that I want people

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to take away from it is that God
held me through it all and he

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defined the circumstances
differently than everybody else

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defined them.
So believing him, God, who God

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says I was over the lies that my
circumstances seem to shout or

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the gossips and slanders who
wanted to know the whole story

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of why I'm divorced.
And I was the first one divorced

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out of the entire church, I'm
pretty sure.

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So I didn't have anybody to lean
on.

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And it was definitely new and
weird.

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And I'm, I mean, who wants to be
a trailblazer of that, right?

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So all those kinds of things.
But what made the difference was

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knowing God and being known by
God.

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Those kept me.
Yeah.

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Well, let's explore all of that
a little bit more because there

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are for sure plenty of
listeners, whether male or

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female, that are either
divorced, divorced and

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remarried, sometimes more than
once and or others that feel

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like their marriage is on the
brink of all of that.

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And what you're describing is
tremendous heartache, but also

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relationship with with God via
the Holy Spirit.

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That was transformative.
So help us understand like maybe

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in that let's just focus on that
first marriage and, and things

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falling apart and the divorce
and all of that stuff like give

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us more color there.
Yeah, so when you grow up at

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church, I think you sort of
imbibe this understanding,

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probably from Proverbs, that if
you do things well, do things

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right, that you'll somehow end
up with the good life, white

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pick a fence, chickens, kids,
the whole thing.

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And that's not always true, and
it wasn't true for me.

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My first husband told me on our
honeymoon night that he was

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addicted to pornography and that
he didn't want to have children.

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Now, he had told me he wanted
10, and I married him because I

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wanted 10.
And here was a man who said he

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wanted 10.
And on our honeymoon night, he

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told me he was addicted to
pornography and he didn't want

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to have children and never want
to talk about it again.

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So it went downhill from there,
basically.

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And I tried and tried for years
to work on it, taking to

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counselling and all sorts of
different things.

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But Paul says that when someone
who doesn't want to serve the

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Lord wants to go, you let them
go.

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And I had to let him go.
So I called up my father and I

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said this is what's happening, I
suspect more than once adultery.

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And my dad said out, he said,
I'm coming to get you right now.

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And he did.
And I left a lot of things

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behind.
I didn't care about them.

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My dad said we're just leaving
now because your safety is of

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most concern to me.
And we even tried after that,

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but it just didn't work out.
And the next thing you knew, I

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was divorced.
And I was divorced took several

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years.
It took a long time to heal.

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As I mentioned, I was first, so
there wasn't a whole lot of

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help.
There were older people who were

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divorced after many, many, many,
many years of marriage, but not

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younger people.
Nowadays we call them trial

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marriages.
This is a thing that happens

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and, you know, there wasn't a
whole lot of help and healing

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and counselling that I was able
to avail myself of, but that

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drove me to get that kind of
training so that I could turn

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around and hand it to other
people.

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And so through that, and, and I
think, you know, one of the

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things I mentioned was a
miscarriage that was towards the

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end of the marriage.
And it was a heartbreaking

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moment.
And I was surrounded by women

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who were encouraging me.
They're saying things like this

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is normal.
We've all been through it.

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You know, we'll help you through
it, which is fine words to say.

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There's nothing wrong with that,
but it didn't take me to the

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traumatic healing, the trauma
healing that I needed.

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So later the Lord took me
through the healing.

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He took me years and years
later, I was at a beach house

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and we were talking about
revival and talking about God.

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My whole family was there.
My new husband was there.

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And I felt like the Lord was
trying to draw me away to speak

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with me.
And so I went up to my room and

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I just laid down and he said, I
want you to name the son that

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you lost.
Up until that time, I didn't

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even know he was a son.
I didn't know he was a male.

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And I said, oh, OK.
Lord, what?

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What?
What's his name like?

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I don't have a name for him.
We never discussed a name.

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And he showed me a name.
It was Aiden.

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And it means little fire.
And I didn't know that at the

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time, but I got just a glimpse
of this smiling face with red

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hair.
My first husband had lots and

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lots of red hair.
And Aiden, meaning little fire,

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was a perfect name for him.
And I just had this sense of,

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OK, God has him, he's growing up
in heaven.

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I don't know if you can preach
that from the pulpit or not, but

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that's what I got.
And that he was learning and

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growing in stature in heaven.
And then I released that pain.

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Up until that point, the whole
that was there had not been

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dealt with.
I just went on because that's

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what you do.
And it wasn't until God put His

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finger on it and said, we're
going to deal with this at the

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right time that He healed up for
me.

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And I look forward to seeing him
someday.

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Yeah, Kathy, thank you for
sharing about Aiden and I'm

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sorry for your loss.
Thank you.

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Yeah, absolutely.
Let's explore all this a tiny

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bit more too, because there's,
there's a, there's a lot here

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that I think can be really
wonderful for our listeners to

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better understand because you
talked about the whole not being

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dealt with until God kind of put
his, You push your thumb up for

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that.
Tell us a little bit more about

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perhaps maybe why it wasn't yet
dealt with.

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And maybe if you have any
insight into why it then became

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time from God's perspective that
now we're going to deal with

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this.
That's a good point.

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You know, from his perspective
is the right time.

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But it was also, I didn't
realize as I look back, it was

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around the time that I lost him
several years later, like

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something like 11 or 12 years
later.

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So that's a significant time.
So I don't know, I didn't keep

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track.
So miscarriage is different than

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still birth, which is different
than losing a child who's been

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running around.
All are hard and I'm sure all

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are too hard to bear for anyone.
I would never compare.

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But the thing about miscarriage
is you don't get to mourn the

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same way, not really.
Like if if someone has a little

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toddler running around and that
toddler dies, everybody mourns

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with you.
There's a lot of space to talk

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about it.
People are going to bring you

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food and check on you and make
sure your body is recuperating

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and you're doing the processes
of mourning.

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When you lose a miscarriage, you
don't have the joy that you had,

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even if it was a small window of
time.

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You lose all the dreams before
they happen.

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You don't get to really talk
about it.

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Most women I meet have lost at
least one child, if not more

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than one, and they don't get
together and talk about

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miscarriage.
It's a thing that's swept under

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the rug.
I even know people who don't

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announce the birth until a
certain point because they don't

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want to announce it.
There's a chance of miscarriage

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up until that point.
I don't believe in that.

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I celebrate life from the moment
I know about it.

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And even if that life, you know,
develops only so far in in my

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belly, my thinking is that when
we hide miscarriages and sweep

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them under the rug and don't
give our bodies the space to

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heal and our emotions to heal.
And even if we didn't know about

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the pregnancy, the hopes and
dreams that we had that we

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didn't even know we had died.
And there has to be space for

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that to heal.
Now I walk people through

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healing processes after they've
lost a child or had an abortion

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even, because in a sense there's
a need to address the person who

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isn't there.
Because as Christians we know

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that that is a person, an entity
with a whole set of DNA,

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personality, God-given talents,
dreams, etcetera that they

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hadn't a chance to envelope.
It's a real person.

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And a miscarriage doesn't really
always give you the chance to

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acknowledge that.
And I hate that for women, I

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really do.
Yeah, yeah, I certainly track

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with you on so much of that.
So thank you for illuminating

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00:14:03,920 --> 00:14:07,400
all of that.
So what was it like for you?

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00:14:07,800 --> 00:14:10,120
Again, we're still focusing on
this first marriage.

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There's so much more for us to
cover, too.

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So we won't stay here forever.
But you really have have, I

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think, struck a nerve in a lot
of ways potentially with our

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listeners here.
So you experienced A dramatic

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shift on your honeymoon night,
you know, your wedding night and

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your husband.
And then as you mentioned, you

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00:14:35,080 --> 00:14:38,440
still were married for another 4
1/2 years.

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And it sounds like where you
endeavored to really make things

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00:14:43,760 --> 00:14:48,760
work.
So I guess give us a little bit

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more insight into your endeavors
there.

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You were certainly alluding to
some of them, but also then how

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you got to the point of where it
was clear this needs to now end.

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You know, I think I tried over
and over again to regrow hope.

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Whatever that took, whether it
was counselling or going through

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00:15:16,360 --> 00:15:21,040
a period of time where you've
almost forget what was said, you

255
00:15:21,040 --> 00:15:25,920
try to get along.
You're, you're actually dealing

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00:15:25,920 --> 00:15:28,560
with a different person than you
thought you were.

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And that takes time.
And then I tried to get him

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00:15:34,080 --> 00:15:38,240
accountability, tried to plug in
more to the church, tried to

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00:15:38,240 --> 00:15:41,800
lead by example, nagged him to
death about taking meds.

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You know, I, I tried it all and
it wasn't working.

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And I think when I knew was when
I lost the first child in that

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marriage, when I lost the
miscarriage of the baby.

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00:15:54,800 --> 00:16:00,760
He said he was so relieved.
I could see his shoulders drop

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00:16:01,120 --> 00:16:06,240
and his head drop.
And he said I am so sad for you,

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00:16:06,240 --> 00:16:09,840
but glad that you lost a child
because we cannot have children.

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That's what he said.
And it just trampled over

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00:16:13,520 --> 00:16:16,920
anything that I had been able to
build up into that point.

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And I just knew it was over.
I, I knew that you can't always.

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00:16:21,600 --> 00:16:25,600
God can resurrect anything, but
as a human, you can't resurrect

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00:16:25,600 --> 00:16:28,960
a whole lot of things.
There's only so many things that

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00:16:28,960 --> 00:16:34,120
you can tend to and do your best
to, water and sunshine and

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00:16:34,120 --> 00:16:35,920
everything else.
And if it's not going to grow,

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00:16:35,920 --> 00:16:38,800
it's not going to grow.
And so I knew at that point, but

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I did wait until I had what we
would call biblical reasons.

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Though now I have learned that
my more conservative background

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00:16:46,920 --> 00:16:50,040
might not be correct in those
areas, that there may be a whole

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00:16:50,040 --> 00:16:52,240
lot more reasons than I
realized.

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00:16:52,280 --> 00:16:55,600
Biblical reasons for diverse.
But I did wait for biblical

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00:16:55,600 --> 00:16:58,000
reasons.
And that's when I called my dad

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00:16:58,000 --> 00:17:02,760
and he got me out of there.
Yeah, yeah, I know this isn't

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00:17:02,760 --> 00:17:05,160
necessarily the easiest thing to
chat about, so I really

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00:17:05,160 --> 00:17:08,319
appreciate the fact that you
were willing to go there and

283
00:17:08,319 --> 00:17:10,319
give us a little bit more
insight into that.

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00:17:11,079 --> 00:17:14,400
So then there's this period of
time, I'll call it a period of

285
00:17:14,400 --> 00:17:18,839
in between, meaning from divorce
to remarriage.

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And I suspect that your
relationship with God was active

287
00:17:23,319 --> 00:17:26,040
at that point.
Tell us what that was like.

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00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:32,400
I think I would call that the
survival period because when you

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00:17:32,400 --> 00:17:36,960
get out of something like that,
you go into a bit of shell shock

290
00:17:36,960 --> 00:17:40,680
bubble, if you will, and your
goal is to survive.

291
00:17:41,320 --> 00:17:44,480
It is not to thrive.
That is like not even on your

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00:17:44,480 --> 00:17:45,360
radar.
OK.

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00:17:45,680 --> 00:17:48,800
On the list is the things that
will cause you to survive.

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00:17:48,960 --> 00:17:52,360
Eat, put 1 foot forward in front
of the other, you know, these

295
00:17:52,360 --> 00:17:54,880
kinds of things.
I was working at the church, so

296
00:17:54,880 --> 00:17:59,280
I was on staff there and they
were very kind and I'm sure I

297
00:17:59,280 --> 00:18:02,640
was not the best assistant.
I was an assistant to the senior

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00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:05,600
pastor at the time.
I can recall making some pretty

299
00:18:05,600 --> 00:18:10,640
big mistakes during that period
of time, but I also struggled

300
00:18:10,640 --> 00:18:16,240
with feeling decommissioned.
You know, when you get married

301
00:18:16,240 --> 00:18:18,960
and you have dreams.
My first husband, by the way,

302
00:18:18,960 --> 00:18:23,920
was an excellent evangelist.
He had an anointing that oozed

303
00:18:23,920 --> 00:18:25,600
out of him.
He would go into the grocery

304
00:18:25,600 --> 00:18:29,200
store when he was not serving
God, and he could lead people to

305
00:18:29,200 --> 00:18:31,880
the Lord.
It was crazy, like it was nuts,

306
00:18:32,960 --> 00:18:37,480
and you just knew that God was
given him something special if

307
00:18:37,480 --> 00:18:41,600
he'd use it.
When you see the death of what

308
00:18:41,600 --> 00:18:47,360
you could have been together,
die, then you wonder what's left

309
00:18:47,360 --> 00:18:50,120
for me.
It's not like I had an identity

310
00:18:50,120 --> 00:18:54,920
in him per SE, but I definitely
had an idea of ministering

311
00:18:54,920 --> 00:18:57,120
together and what that would
look like.

312
00:18:57,600 --> 00:19:01,400
And certainly now I'm in this
situation where, you know, it's

313
00:19:01,400 --> 00:19:05,000
a little scandalous.
Am I decommissioned because of

314
00:19:05,000 --> 00:19:09,560
this scandal that I had to walk
through?

315
00:19:09,560 --> 00:19:12,320
And they were people who wanted
to know everything, all the

316
00:19:12,320 --> 00:19:14,400
details.
And let me tell your listeners,

317
00:19:14,760 --> 00:19:17,880
people are not entitled to the
full story.

318
00:19:18,320 --> 00:19:20,760
You can give them only what they
need to know.

319
00:19:20,760 --> 00:19:23,480
And some people don't need to
know anything.

320
00:19:23,680 --> 00:19:26,560
OK, that's for a freebie.
We'll just put that out.

321
00:19:28,320 --> 00:19:31,400
But I learned that you know, and
here I am.

322
00:19:31,400 --> 00:19:36,040
So I got married when I was just
shy of 18 and divorced 4 1/2

323
00:19:36,040 --> 00:19:38,760
years later.
I am not yet a full grown adult

324
00:19:38,760 --> 00:19:41,960
if you ask me.
Looking back, I do not feel that

325
00:19:41,960 --> 00:19:43,440
I was actually a full grown
adult.

326
00:19:43,760 --> 00:19:46,880
All right.
So I'm surviving, I'm doing the

327
00:19:46,880 --> 00:19:51,080
things that you do, such as the
devotions in the morning, but

328
00:19:51,080 --> 00:19:54,200
it's dead.
There's no presence, there's no

329
00:19:54,200 --> 00:19:58,480
thriving, there's no worship is
because I know I have to do it

330
00:19:58,480 --> 00:20:01,760
to stay alive.
I'm reading my Bible because I

331
00:20:01,760 --> 00:20:05,320
know I need it, though it's not
going all the way in, I

332
00:20:05,320 --> 00:20:07,080
guarantee it.
You know, it's not being

333
00:20:07,080 --> 00:20:12,080
transformative at all.
It is just doing the discipline

334
00:20:12,240 --> 00:20:16,960
that I knew I had to do.
And still questioning what is

335
00:20:16,960 --> 00:20:19,160
next for me.
I don't even know if there is a

336
00:20:19,160 --> 00:20:21,680
next.
Like do I go off and just become

337
00:20:21,680 --> 00:20:25,880
a nothing to God because this is
not the original plan.

338
00:20:25,880 --> 00:20:28,000
Like these are the questions you
wrestle with.

339
00:20:28,600 --> 00:20:33,240
And luckily I had a wonderful
pastor's wife who kept bringing

340
00:20:33,240 --> 00:20:36,720
me alongside and she kept
bringing me alongside.

341
00:20:37,040 --> 00:20:40,160
And sometimes I don't want to be
there at all because I would

342
00:20:40,160 --> 00:20:42,880
just let me go do my work
because I need just focus.

343
00:20:42,880 --> 00:20:46,320
And she would bring me in to
minister to interns, lay hands

344
00:20:46,320 --> 00:20:49,320
on them and pray for them.
In our tradition, that's very

345
00:20:49,320 --> 00:20:51,840
common.
You do that, you know, if you if

346
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,240
you sneeze, somebody lays hands
on you.

347
00:20:53,240 --> 00:20:55,920
So we were laying hands on them
and blessing them.

348
00:20:55,920 --> 00:21:00,800
And I was grumbling in my mind
one time and I was like, I don't

349
00:21:00,800 --> 00:21:02,280
want to be here.
This is not me.

350
00:21:02,760 --> 00:21:04,520
I don't know what I'm supposed
to be doing here.

351
00:21:04,760 --> 00:21:07,000
And the holy, I said, Holy
Spirit, what's am I supposed to

352
00:21:07,000 --> 00:21:09,040
pray?
And the Holy Spirit said, pray

353
00:21:09,040 --> 00:21:11,880
James over him.
So I had James memorized at

354
00:21:11,880 --> 00:21:13,160
least the first couple of
chapters.

355
00:21:13,440 --> 00:21:15,920
So I began to pray James over
this person.

356
00:21:16,160 --> 00:21:19,240
He fell over like I never, I
don't lay hands on people and

357
00:21:19,240 --> 00:21:21,680
then fall over.
Like, I know people push people

358
00:21:21,680 --> 00:21:24,920
down, and I know people who
don't push people down.

359
00:21:24,920 --> 00:21:27,640
They're legit.
But I'm not one of those people

360
00:21:27,640 --> 00:21:28,800
either.
One, OK.

361
00:21:28,800 --> 00:21:32,880
And this guy, he fell over and
he said to me, he said that is

362
00:21:32,880 --> 00:21:35,560
the most heavy I've ever felt
the presence of God.

363
00:21:35,560 --> 00:21:40,040
And I was like, whoa, I knew
what my internal dialogue was.

364
00:21:40,040 --> 00:21:44,080
I was like, God, out of all the
time I've been serving you 20

365
00:21:44,080 --> 00:21:46,920
something years here.
This is the first time anything

366
00:21:46,920 --> 00:21:50,240
like this has happened.
And it comes the day I'm

367
00:21:50,240 --> 00:21:53,320
grumbling to you and you just
tell me to say, James over this

368
00:21:53,320 --> 00:21:57,240
part really.
And the Lord spoke to me and he

369
00:21:57,240 --> 00:22:00,560
said in your weakness, I am
strong.

370
00:22:00,560 --> 00:22:03,400
And I said, OK, you're right,
you're so right.

371
00:22:03,880 --> 00:22:09,160
So things like that continued to
happen until I went away to a

372
00:22:09,160 --> 00:22:14,240
youth camp as a helper, not as a
youth, but as a helper.

373
00:22:14,720 --> 00:22:17,840
And I was going through the
worship and but it was great.

374
00:22:17,840 --> 00:22:19,560
Worship always is at camp,
right?

375
00:22:20,000 --> 00:22:22,960
And the speaker, I don't even
remember who he was.

376
00:22:23,720 --> 00:22:26,800
He was coming up the stairs as
we were turning around to grab

377
00:22:26,800 --> 00:22:30,440
our Bibles off the chair and sit
down, you know, and I was on the

378
00:22:30,440 --> 00:22:33,120
front row.
I always sit on the front row.

379
00:22:33,120 --> 00:22:37,000
I'm the front row person.
And he said you, oh, first of

380
00:22:37,000 --> 00:22:41,480
all, I grabbed my stuff.
I said to myself, OK, Lord, I

381
00:22:41,480 --> 00:22:44,040
can hear from you now.
Up until this point, maybe a

382
00:22:44,040 --> 00:22:47,880
year, year and a half, I'm not
hearing God, there's no that's

383
00:22:47,880 --> 00:22:50,320
not functioning.
And I yeah, there's a lot of

384
00:22:50,320 --> 00:22:52,520
resistance in you, it sounds
like.

385
00:22:53,040 --> 00:22:55,720
Absolute.
Well, it's not resistance so

386
00:22:55,720 --> 00:22:58,560
much as you're shut down.
That part of you is shut down.

387
00:22:59,280 --> 00:23:03,200
And so I turned around, plopped
my bum on the seat, and that

388
00:23:03,200 --> 00:23:06,400
leader said, you God wants to
speak to you right now.

389
00:23:06,520 --> 00:23:11,080
And I was like, OK.
And then he prophesied to me

390
00:23:11,320 --> 00:23:13,800
things that only I knew in my
heart.

391
00:23:14,240 --> 00:23:16,360
And I was like, OK.
And it was a part of a

392
00:23:16,360 --> 00:23:19,160
recommission.
Like, there is a future for you.

393
00:23:19,760 --> 00:23:26,640
And that was a necessary moment.
Yeah, probably a dramatic shift

394
00:23:26,640 --> 00:23:28,400
for you, but I don't want to put
words in your mouth.

395
00:23:28,400 --> 00:23:32,080
What was that like?
It recommissioned me, I would

396
00:23:32,080 --> 00:23:35,880
say, because when you're in that
place of I don't know, am IA

397
00:23:36,280 --> 00:23:38,800
lost cause am I, do I have a
ministry?

398
00:23:38,800 --> 00:23:43,200
Do I have a mission anymore?
He spoke and he recommissioned

399
00:23:43,200 --> 00:23:45,480
me.
He said all the things that my

400
00:23:45,480 --> 00:23:48,240
heart desired.
You will do these things.

401
00:23:48,400 --> 00:23:52,400
I have not abandoned you, which
I, I knew he hadn't, but it's,

402
00:23:52,520 --> 00:23:56,800
it's nice to be reminded and I
still am calling you and you

403
00:23:56,800 --> 00:23:59,800
still have work to do.
And I have predestined you for

404
00:23:59,800 --> 00:24:02,840
the good works.
You know the scripture that says

405
00:24:02,840 --> 00:24:04,160
that.
And it did.

406
00:24:04,160 --> 00:24:06,520
It relaunched me back into
things.

407
00:24:06,520 --> 00:24:09,760
And I began to come alive from
that moment again because during

408
00:24:09,760 --> 00:24:12,880
that time I was very dormant.
Now I was coming back to life.

409
00:24:13,800 --> 00:24:15,440
Yeah.
And you said this is roughly a

410
00:24:15,440 --> 00:24:17,680
year and a half or so post
divorce, right?

411
00:24:17,760 --> 00:24:24,240
Yes.
Yeah, So what happens leading up

412
00:24:24,240 --> 00:24:31,400
to meeting your now husband?
I was serving at church 6-7 days

413
00:24:31,400 --> 00:24:35,720
a week, but was just all in.
I was there in charge of so many

414
00:24:35,720 --> 00:24:39,520
different ministries and things,
marketing, media.

415
00:24:40,160 --> 00:24:43,920
I was there for three services,
one on Saturday, 2:00 on Sunday,

416
00:24:43,920 --> 00:24:47,360
1:00 on Sunday night, Wednesday
night, Thursday practice.

417
00:24:47,600 --> 00:24:50,680
You know, I threw myself into it
because these are my people and

418
00:24:50,680 --> 00:24:54,120
I, I trusted them.
And even though I knew a lot of

419
00:24:54,120 --> 00:24:57,120
their, you know, mistakes or
foibles or whatever, I loved

420
00:24:57,120 --> 00:25:00,320
them and trusted them.
And so in the middle of all that

421
00:25:00,320 --> 00:25:02,840
serving, it would have been
almost impossible to date.

422
00:25:02,840 --> 00:25:05,280
That's how busy I was.
And I did not date.

423
00:25:05,640 --> 00:25:08,360
I think somebody fixed me up
with someone and I went out on a

424
00:25:08,360 --> 00:25:10,080
dinner date and that was a
disaster.

425
00:25:10,080 --> 00:25:14,240
I am not a dateable person.
I get, I'm going to slip all the

426
00:25:14,240 --> 00:25:17,720
fluff, all the small talk.
We're going to be talking about

427
00:25:17,720 --> 00:25:19,760
the big things of life pretty
quickly.

428
00:25:20,000 --> 00:25:22,240
And so it's not really dating
material.

429
00:25:22,240 --> 00:25:24,800
So that went very well.
Not, not very well.

430
00:25:25,160 --> 00:25:28,680
And so I was serving and I
walked out one day.

431
00:25:28,680 --> 00:25:32,040
I slept in because I didn't have
to be there early, early 5:30 in

432
00:25:32,040 --> 00:25:33,440
the morning.
I think I was getting there at

433
00:25:33,440 --> 00:25:37,200
like 9.
And so I felt leisurely able to

434
00:25:37,200 --> 00:25:40,680
get ready, walked out to my car
and there's this blonde man

435
00:25:40,680 --> 00:25:45,320
standing there, 6 foot four.
And he's got his big heavy Bible

436
00:25:45,320 --> 00:25:47,040
in his arms.
So I know he's a Christian.

437
00:25:47,520 --> 00:25:50,920
And I said, oh, hello.
I said, are you headed to

438
00:25:50,920 --> 00:25:52,960
church?
And he said, yes, you must be

439
00:25:52,960 --> 00:25:54,520
headed to church, too.
I had my Bible.

440
00:25:54,880 --> 00:25:57,440
And I said, yes, I'm going to
Atlanta City Church, which is

441
00:25:57,440 --> 00:25:59,200
the name of the church.
And he said, oh, that's where I

442
00:25:59,200 --> 00:26:02,280
go.
So when you have that many

443
00:26:02,280 --> 00:26:03,960
services, you don't meet
everybody.

444
00:26:04,280 --> 00:26:07,480
And I said, well, that's my
dad's church.

445
00:26:07,480 --> 00:26:09,160
I go there, too.
I'll see you there.

446
00:26:09,480 --> 00:26:12,920
And so for him, it was, I think,
a normal meeting.

447
00:26:12,920 --> 00:26:17,720
But for me, the clouds had
parted, the birds were singing,

448
00:26:17,720 --> 00:26:21,000
the sun was shining.
I don't know any other way.

449
00:26:21,000 --> 00:26:22,840
It was a very Disney moment for
me.

450
00:26:23,440 --> 00:26:26,640
And I was like, that's weird.
I'm not normally a sentimental

451
00:26:26,640 --> 00:26:30,440
Disney kind of person.
And so I met him again at

452
00:26:30,440 --> 00:26:34,680
church, smiled, waved, and he
went to one O 1 through 4 O1,

453
00:26:34,680 --> 00:26:36,480
which is like this membership
class.

454
00:26:36,680 --> 00:26:41,200
I was a part of that because I
was handling it, the details of

455
00:26:41,200 --> 00:26:48,320
it, and within about a few
weeks, we went on a date.

456
00:26:48,360 --> 00:26:52,320
I asked him on the first date.
That's a crazy thing and but it

457
00:26:52,320 --> 00:26:55,400
wasn't meant to be a date.
I asked him to go to a party, a

458
00:26:55,400 --> 00:26:57,360
birthday party with me at a
restaurant.

459
00:26:57,520 --> 00:27:00,440
We got lost in Atlanta.
I couldn't find the place that

460
00:27:00,440 --> 00:27:04,600
it was, so we just ate.
So that was our gotcha.

461
00:27:05,120 --> 00:27:07,960
That's kind of a precursor to my
life too, because I get lost

462
00:27:07,960 --> 00:27:10,520
very easily and he knows that
about me.

463
00:27:10,680 --> 00:27:14,600
So you know, it was for me it
was love at first sight kind of

464
00:27:14,600 --> 00:27:17,360
thing.
But I also sensed 2 things about

465
00:27:17,360 --> 00:27:20,040
him.
One, that he was trustworthy and

466
00:27:20,040 --> 00:27:22,000
two, that he was not addicted to
pornography.

467
00:27:22,240 --> 00:27:25,680
If you've lived with
pornography, you can detect it

468
00:27:26,000 --> 00:27:29,040
in people.
And I could detect that he did

469
00:27:29,040 --> 00:27:32,760
not have that spirit and a
spirit of lust or anything like

470
00:27:32,760 --> 00:27:36,320
that.
And so within the first date,

471
00:27:37,600 --> 00:27:41,480
after the first date, so again,
not dating material, I told him

472
00:27:41,480 --> 00:27:44,320
that I was ready to get married
and he could let me know when he

473
00:27:44,320 --> 00:27:48,400
was ready, which I don't
recommend.

474
00:27:50,160 --> 00:27:54,000
Very forward there.
I know, no, I don't recommend

475
00:27:54,000 --> 00:27:57,600
it.
However, this guy had dated

476
00:27:57,600 --> 00:28:01,600
about 200 Christian women in his
lifetime, later found out, loved

477
00:28:01,600 --> 00:28:05,120
him and he was very pure, didn't
do anything with them beyond

478
00:28:05,120 --> 00:28:07,200
kiss them.
He was like Seinfeld.

479
00:28:07,200 --> 00:28:09,160
He couldn't.
You would always find something

480
00:28:09,160 --> 00:28:12,760
wrong with them, you know.
And so when I did that, I took

481
00:28:12,760 --> 00:28:18,320
away the game and I was like,
you know, this is me.

482
00:28:18,640 --> 00:28:21,160
If you want to marry me, I'm
here and I'm ready.

483
00:28:21,160 --> 00:28:25,720
So whenever you are.
Yeah, wow.

484
00:28:25,720 --> 00:28:30,560
OK, So how long did that take?
How did it go?

485
00:28:31,320 --> 00:28:35,400
So he broke up with me not
terribly long after that, not

486
00:28:35,400 --> 00:28:38,880
because of that, but because I
am a creative.

487
00:28:38,880 --> 00:28:41,160
He's OCD.
There's a little bit of a clash

488
00:28:41,160 --> 00:28:44,040
there.
And he.

489
00:28:44,360 --> 00:28:49,720
So he dumped me and then a
little bit later we got back

490
00:28:49,720 --> 00:28:53,080
together and then he dumped me
again.

491
00:28:53,880 --> 00:28:56,640
And.
And then the third time he.

492
00:28:56,960 --> 00:28:58,520
We.
Yeah, So he dummy again.

493
00:28:58,520 --> 00:29:02,120
Then he started dating that gal.
This is his ideal woman.

494
00:29:02,120 --> 00:29:03,880
I guess he met her on eHarmony
or something.

495
00:29:04,360 --> 00:29:08,840
And he thought, he told me I
need some space because we were

496
00:29:08,840 --> 00:29:13,760
good friends serving in singles
together, you know, And he said

497
00:29:13,760 --> 00:29:15,920
I need some space.
I think she's the one which just

498
00:29:16,360 --> 00:29:19,600
broke me.
And then that's when I went

499
00:29:19,600 --> 00:29:26,920
through that part of my story,
which is learning to turn in to

500
00:29:26,920 --> 00:29:31,800
get what I need for the moment
and letting that be enough and

501
00:29:31,800 --> 00:29:36,480
then coming back at turning in
and getting what I need for that

502
00:29:36,480 --> 00:29:39,600
moment.
And then that happened for about

503
00:29:39,640 --> 00:29:44,320
3 months of just pure misery.
When I talk about it with women,

504
00:29:44,320 --> 00:29:46,080
they always have similar
stories.

505
00:29:46,080 --> 00:29:49,000
It's crazy.
And they they tell me that

506
00:29:49,000 --> 00:29:52,960
they've been through this and
where they love someone and

507
00:29:53,320 --> 00:29:56,880
they've been dumped.
Usually people don't do it three

508
00:29:56,880 --> 00:30:00,360
times or are willing to, you
know, go through three times,

509
00:30:00,920 --> 00:30:04,280
but he did.
So that was the the the third

510
00:30:04,280 --> 00:30:09,240
time after he dumped me, met the
girl, told me to pause.

511
00:30:09,600 --> 00:30:13,400
I paused. 3 1/2 months later the
Holy Spirit said give him a

512
00:30:13,400 --> 00:30:15,440
call, give him a call.
So I did.

513
00:30:15,440 --> 00:30:18,240
I gave him a call.
I said, hey, it's me, your

514
00:30:18,240 --> 00:30:20,640
friend, long lost.
How are you?

515
00:30:20,960 --> 00:30:25,280
He said how did you know?
I broke up with her and I said I

516
00:30:25,280 --> 00:30:26,560
didn't know.
I didn't know.

517
00:30:26,840 --> 00:30:28,680
He said well I'm going shopping
for cars.

518
00:30:28,680 --> 00:30:30,800
I love cars so I was like sure
I'm coming.

519
00:30:31,320 --> 00:30:33,200
We went shopping.
We ate dinner.

520
00:30:33,200 --> 00:30:35,760
Two months later we were
engaged. 2 months after that we

521
00:30:35,760 --> 00:30:40,080
were married.
Wow, and how long has it been?

522
00:30:41,000 --> 00:30:45,120
We have been together.
Oh, don't ask me that.

523
00:30:45,200 --> 00:30:47,320
That's the kind of thing you
need to ask my husband.

524
00:30:47,920 --> 00:30:52,080
So I think we're going on 26
years in January.

525
00:30:52,760 --> 00:30:57,960
Yeah, wow.
Yeah, my brother got married in

526
00:30:57,960 --> 00:31:01,520
January and it seems like it
would be so easy to do the math.

527
00:31:01,520 --> 00:31:03,480
You know what I mean?
Based on January, but some

528
00:31:04,600 --> 00:31:07,000
slightly more complicated, it
seems that it should.

529
00:31:07,000 --> 00:31:09,680
Be yeah, something.
Well, I probably it changes

530
00:31:09,680 --> 00:31:12,040
every year, so I don't.
It's hard to remember how many

531
00:31:12,040 --> 00:31:16,840
years we've been married.
Yeah, 26, congratulations.

532
00:31:18,120 --> 00:31:20,280
Thank you.
How long have you been married?

533
00:31:21,080 --> 00:31:23,880
19 Yeah.
Praise God.

534
00:31:24,640 --> 00:31:28,000
Praise God.
Yeah, man, He gets every bit of

535
00:31:28,000 --> 00:31:31,040
the glory for that.
So no doubt about it.

536
00:31:31,880 --> 00:31:35,720
So that is absolutely amazing,
Kathy.

537
00:31:35,720 --> 00:31:38,280
I mean, there's so many
different pieces that are in

538
00:31:38,280 --> 00:31:41,560
there.
And obviously you stuck with

539
00:31:41,560 --> 00:31:44,840
things, you know what I mean,
through that time.

540
00:31:45,080 --> 00:31:47,880
But you mentioned or kind of,
yeah, you were, you were talking

541
00:31:47,880 --> 00:31:51,400
specifically about during that
period of time, particularly in

542
00:31:51,400 --> 00:31:56,480
that 3 1/2 month period that you
had to turn in to get what you

543
00:31:56,480 --> 00:31:58,760
needed.
And I think I have an idea of

544
00:31:58,760 --> 00:32:02,000
what you mean by that.
But let's be really clear.

545
00:32:02,000 --> 00:32:05,720
Tell us what or who you're
turning into, OK?

546
00:32:07,280 --> 00:32:10,240
So when people suffer, they have
two choices.

547
00:32:10,720 --> 00:32:13,880
They can either rant, rail, and
question God.

548
00:32:14,440 --> 00:32:17,520
And that's sometimes a
legitimate response.

549
00:32:17,520 --> 00:32:20,080
I'm not saying that it's not a
human response.

550
00:32:20,920 --> 00:32:24,160
I'm sure I did a certain
percentage of that myself.

551
00:32:24,880 --> 00:32:28,520
But then the other option is to
lean into God.

552
00:32:28,520 --> 00:32:31,240
This is what the psalmist does
in almost every Psalm.

553
00:32:31,440 --> 00:32:35,960
The first half is he's laying
out how bad things really are

554
00:32:36,400 --> 00:32:39,800
truthfully.
And then about this latter half

555
00:32:39,800 --> 00:32:43,880
of the Psalms, if you ever read
it, you'll notice they shift.

556
00:32:44,520 --> 00:32:49,600
They say things like, yet I will
trust God, yet I will put my

557
00:32:49,600 --> 00:32:52,640
faith in the one who was
faithful in the past and will be

558
00:32:52,640 --> 00:32:56,160
faithful in the future.
They remember and recount to

559
00:32:56,160 --> 00:32:59,200
themselves the days of old, the
things you did.

560
00:32:59,520 --> 00:33:03,240
And I do the same thing.
So when I lean in, when I say

561
00:33:03,240 --> 00:33:08,600
that I'm turning into God, I'm
turning, returning and reminding

562
00:33:08,600 --> 00:33:13,280
my of the times when He kept me,
held me, spoke to me, and I

563
00:33:13,280 --> 00:33:16,920
proved that it was Him over and
over and over.

564
00:33:16,920 --> 00:33:19,320
Oh, that's you.
That's you speaking.

565
00:33:19,320 --> 00:33:23,320
OK, so now I can trust that
voice or oh, that's how you

566
00:33:23,320 --> 00:33:26,400
interpret Scripture in a
situation like that.

567
00:33:26,680 --> 00:33:32,760
Or when I turn on a worship
music song and I get lost in the

568
00:33:32,760 --> 00:33:36,520
worship and I receive from him,
I'm doing those things, It's

569
00:33:36,520 --> 00:33:40,960
like plugging in, right?
And so when I was going through

570
00:33:40,960 --> 00:33:45,880
those times, any of those times,
pick one, the thing that I was

571
00:33:45,880 --> 00:33:50,760
able to rely on, probably
because of the, I would say,

572
00:33:51,640 --> 00:33:55,520
generations before me that had
set a path.

573
00:33:55,760 --> 00:33:58,320
This is how you exist in
suffering.

574
00:33:58,560 --> 00:34:05,520
This is how you make it through.
I was able to get the power of

575
00:34:05,520 --> 00:34:10,480
the Holy Spirit to sustain me.
If I needed kindness in a

576
00:34:10,480 --> 00:34:15,760
moment, He gave me kindness.
If I needed joy when I was

577
00:34:15,760 --> 00:34:18,880
feeling very low, he gave me
that.

578
00:34:19,159 --> 00:34:23,560
And a lot of times it was like,
I would say, oh, that's a lack

579
00:34:23,679 --> 00:34:25,480
in me.
Here's a lack, right.

580
00:34:25,480 --> 00:34:26,719
Here's a lack I'm holding a
lack.

581
00:34:26,719 --> 00:34:30,080
This is lack I lack.
And then I would turn to him and

582
00:34:30,080 --> 00:34:32,800
say, what do you have that's
going to fix this lack?

583
00:34:33,560 --> 00:34:37,040
And it's always in his character
and his nature.

584
00:34:37,280 --> 00:34:41,560
This is what I write about all
the time because it's it's like

585
00:34:41,600 --> 00:34:46,880
every time I have a lack, he has
the antidote to that directly in

586
00:34:46,880 --> 00:34:48,480
his character and his
attributes.

587
00:34:48,480 --> 00:34:52,239
And it fills or fixes or
changes, transforms that lack.

588
00:34:52,719 --> 00:34:55,880
And that's the way he designed
it, I think.

589
00:34:56,760 --> 00:35:00,880
But as Americans, we think we're
supposed to approach without

590
00:35:00,880 --> 00:35:03,240
lack.
That is not how he designed it.

591
00:35:03,560 --> 00:35:08,000
He designed it so that when you
encounter lack, when you suffer,

592
00:35:08,200 --> 00:35:13,280
when you wrestle hard things,
you turn to him and say, do you

593
00:35:13,280 --> 00:35:16,480
have something for this?
Then he says, Oh yes, I do.

594
00:35:16,600 --> 00:35:18,920
And then he supplies it from
himself.

595
00:35:19,320 --> 00:35:24,280
That's why the Bible is so full
of all the names of God and what

596
00:35:24,280 --> 00:35:27,440
they mean, because they're not
just telling you like an

597
00:35:27,440 --> 00:35:30,280
introduction like a dating game
or something like that.

598
00:35:30,600 --> 00:35:34,600
He's telling you because those
things are made available to

599
00:35:34,600 --> 00:35:36,880
you.
People have a difficulty

600
00:35:36,880 --> 00:35:40,680
defining grace.
They say it's unmerited favor or

601
00:35:40,680 --> 00:35:45,400
something like this is fine.
Grace is everything found in the

602
00:35:45,400 --> 00:35:51,080
nature and the character of God
made available to you in the

603
00:35:51,080 --> 00:35:53,880
perfected moment of your knee.
Not before.

604
00:35:54,880 --> 00:35:57,040
You didn't have grace to raise
your children before you had

605
00:35:57,040 --> 00:35:58,640
children.
You didn't have grace to be

606
00:35:58,640 --> 00:36:01,760
married before you were married.
You don't get the grace to do

607
00:36:01,760 --> 00:36:04,120
the hard things until you're
going through them.

608
00:36:04,120 --> 00:36:07,200
It's like that movie Search for
the Holy Grail.

609
00:36:07,800 --> 00:36:11,000
Not the Monty Python version,
but the the good one, the

610
00:36:11,000 --> 00:36:15,320
Indiana Jones one.
And he's going across the the

611
00:36:15,320 --> 00:36:16,320
chasm.
Chasm.

612
00:36:16,680 --> 00:36:19,720
See.
Yes, it's so powerful because

613
00:36:19,720 --> 00:36:22,760
all he has is this map of his
dad's, you know, with the little

614
00:36:22,760 --> 00:36:24,840
drawing.
And he's like, there's no way.

615
00:36:25,080 --> 00:36:27,160
He has no rope.
He has no nothing.

616
00:36:27,200 --> 00:36:29,840
He's done nothing.
And he's either going to put his

617
00:36:29,840 --> 00:36:33,560
foot forward and go straight
down to his death and and his

618
00:36:33,560 --> 00:36:37,480
dad's going to die too, or his
foot is going to connect.

619
00:36:38,360 --> 00:36:41,680
And just as he transfers all his
weight, like watch it.

620
00:36:41,680 --> 00:36:44,480
It's incredible.
You can get clips on YouTube.

621
00:36:44,600 --> 00:36:49,200
Just as he transfers his weight
and it's either do or die, his

622
00:36:49,200 --> 00:36:52,160
foot connects.
That's how grace is.

623
00:36:52,160 --> 00:36:55,040
That is what it is.
Just before it's do or die.

624
00:36:55,960 --> 00:36:59,080
God's grace connects you with
the very thing that's going to

625
00:36:59,080 --> 00:37:01,640
carry you.
Yeah.

626
00:37:02,520 --> 00:37:04,360
Thank you for illuminating it in
that way.

627
00:37:04,360 --> 00:37:08,000
I'm very familiar with that
scene because having seen it

628
00:37:08,000 --> 00:37:10,720
many, many years ago when it
first came out, because I think

629
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:12,600
that movie's probably from the
90s.

630
00:37:13,680 --> 00:37:16,760
It was just very impactful.
It.

631
00:37:17,000 --> 00:37:21,840
Was and very, very memorable and
I don't want to highlight that

632
00:37:21,840 --> 00:37:24,560
to diminish anything that you've
said, but simply to further it.

633
00:37:25,200 --> 00:37:28,120
Well, to that end, I want to
kind of come back a little bit

634
00:37:28,280 --> 00:37:35,840
to your praying James over that
particular person because in a

635
00:37:35,840 --> 00:37:39,600
way that is a great example of
exactly what you were

636
00:37:39,600 --> 00:37:46,520
describing, which is in exactly
that moment he told you James

637
00:37:46,520 --> 00:37:50,560
for this person.
So walking away from that, can

638
00:37:50,560 --> 00:37:54,560
you recall or to what extent do
you recall the impact of that

639
00:37:54,760 --> 00:37:59,520
particular moment for you?
You know, that happened.

640
00:37:59,680 --> 00:38:02,240
And then right after that, I
think like the next day,

641
00:38:02,240 --> 00:38:06,280
something similar happened where
I was praying for someone and

642
00:38:06,280 --> 00:38:10,000
they felt the presence of God.
And I really had to ask a lot of

643
00:38:10,000 --> 00:38:14,680
questions of God to know why.
Why now?

644
00:38:15,000 --> 00:38:17,400
You know, I've been serving you
my whole life.

645
00:38:17,720 --> 00:38:22,000
Why in these instances are you
letting your power flow through

646
00:38:22,000 --> 00:38:25,400
me?
And he said, it's because you're

647
00:38:25,400 --> 00:38:29,200
not getting in the way.
And, you know, I could have been

648
00:38:29,200 --> 00:38:32,640
offended by that, but I wasn't
because obviously that's what

649
00:38:32,640 --> 00:38:36,840
had happened before.
And maybe I had expectations, or

650
00:38:37,600 --> 00:38:41,320
maybe I just hadn't been in a
place to receive fully.

651
00:38:42,080 --> 00:38:45,200
I don't know.
But whatever the case is, from

652
00:38:45,200 --> 00:38:50,680
that moment on, it became I
became more aware that his, his

653
00:38:50,680 --> 00:38:53,680
job, if you will, is to flow
through me.

654
00:38:53,920 --> 00:38:59,080
My job is to let him flow.
This perfect relationship here

655
00:38:59,360 --> 00:39:01,680
is to not prevent it from
flowing.

656
00:39:02,080 --> 00:39:06,720
There's a word Eucharista says.
Now I'll geek out for a second.

657
00:39:06,880 --> 00:39:10,960
It's a Greek word, and it's
where we get our communion word

658
00:39:11,040 --> 00:39:13,400
Eucharist.
And it's right there in the

659
00:39:13,400 --> 00:39:15,120
scriptures.
It's in multiple places.

660
00:39:15,120 --> 00:39:18,640
But in the Scriptures, when he
breaks the bread and he gives

661
00:39:18,640 --> 00:39:22,960
the wine for the very first time
to the disciples right before

662
00:39:22,960 --> 00:39:27,000
that, it says, and he gave
thanks, which is a terrible

663
00:39:27,000 --> 00:39:30,760
translation.
That is not not dashing off a

664
00:39:30,760 --> 00:39:33,720
thank you note for Americans.
It's a terrible translation.

665
00:39:33,840 --> 00:39:37,360
Like when we say thank you, it's
like, oh, thanks, you know, or

666
00:39:37,360 --> 00:39:39,360
write a thank you note if you're
lucky, right?

667
00:39:39,360 --> 00:39:41,000
If you're lucky, you get a
handwritten thank you note.

668
00:39:41,000 --> 00:39:43,480
Like that's that's high level
thanks right now.

669
00:39:44,160 --> 00:39:49,520
But he connected, right.
OK, So he connected with the

670
00:39:49,520 --> 00:39:54,520
Father, and the Father poured
out all that he was into the

671
00:39:54,520 --> 00:39:59,240
Son, and the Son received and
returned it back to him in

672
00:39:59,320 --> 00:40:02,520
unbroken fellowship.
That's Eucharist to say.

673
00:40:02,520 --> 00:40:05,640
So that's actually the most
important part of communion that

674
00:40:05,640 --> 00:40:08,360
we don't really talk about much
because we just kind of jumped

675
00:40:08,360 --> 00:40:10,960
to the blood and the bread
because it's tangible and you

676
00:40:10,960 --> 00:40:14,080
can feel that.
But Athanasius tells us that

677
00:40:14,080 --> 00:40:18,000
Eucharist to say is receiving
all that God pours out.

678
00:40:18,800 --> 00:40:22,360
And, and it overflows and it
fixes the world around us.

679
00:40:22,360 --> 00:40:25,640
Like NT Wright is always talking
about encouraging us that our

680
00:40:25,640 --> 00:40:30,600
job is to flow with this power
of the Holy Spirit, repairing

681
00:40:30,600 --> 00:40:34,000
what is broken, but also to
return it back to him and

682
00:40:34,000 --> 00:40:36,360
worship.
So I think that was when I

683
00:40:36,360 --> 00:40:40,160
started to land on Ah, this is
how it's supposed to go.

684
00:40:42,200 --> 00:40:43,280
Yeah.
Wow.

685
00:40:44,200 --> 00:40:46,160
That's pretty significant
revelation there.

686
00:40:47,440 --> 00:40:49,440
That's great.
Thank you for sharing that.

687
00:40:51,360 --> 00:40:54,960
Well, let's come into now.
You're married, OK.

688
00:40:54,960 --> 00:40:57,400
I know I've been moving us
around, shifting us around a lot

689
00:40:57,400 --> 00:41:04,800
of different places in the
story, but you are married and

690
00:41:05,000 --> 00:41:07,560
there are some challenges.
Tell us a little bit about

691
00:41:07,560 --> 00:41:12,360
those.
So at first when I married my

692
00:41:12,360 --> 00:41:17,560
husband, as I mentioned, he's
OCD and I am not kind of

693
00:41:17,560 --> 00:41:21,160
opposite raised by hippies.
So there's opposite.

694
00:41:21,840 --> 00:41:24,800
And we struggled through a
number of things.

695
00:41:25,480 --> 00:41:31,640
The main thing I think was that
I needed to know that God's

696
00:41:31,640 --> 00:41:37,520
promises to me that happened
kind of in between the first

697
00:41:37,520 --> 00:41:41,200
marriage and the second marriage
that I would have children would

698
00:41:41,200 --> 00:41:44,680
come to pass.
And you know, I don't want to be

699
00:41:44,680 --> 00:41:47,280
one of those people who's
obsessed about having children.

700
00:41:47,280 --> 00:41:50,640
I wasn't like that, but he had
given a promise.

701
00:41:50,960 --> 00:41:54,000
So therefore I wanted to see
that promise come to pass.

702
00:41:54,000 --> 00:41:56,000
OK, so that's a little different
place.

703
00:41:56,840 --> 00:41:59,840
And my second husband really
didn't want children.

704
00:42:00,600 --> 00:42:03,880
But when we got married, he said
we will have children.

705
00:42:04,360 --> 00:42:07,920
I so great.
You come to me when you're ready

706
00:42:07,920 --> 00:42:11,800
to have children.
I was not sure how long that was

707
00:42:11,800 --> 00:42:14,600
going to take.
And 10 years is probably a

708
00:42:14,600 --> 00:42:15,840
little bit longer than I
thought.

709
00:42:16,280 --> 00:42:19,560
But regardless, I waited.
I didn't want to nag him into

710
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:21,400
anything.
It's just not how you should do

711
00:42:21,400 --> 00:42:23,160
it.
It's it's not a recipe for a

712
00:42:23,160 --> 00:42:26,960
great marriage.
And right after I told my

713
00:42:27,080 --> 00:42:32,520
husband Mickey is his name,
after I told him that I was not

714
00:42:32,520 --> 00:42:34,920
going to pressure him.
He just needed to come to me.

715
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,960
I was doing my devotions.
I think it was the next day and

716
00:42:39,960 --> 00:42:45,200
I was just sort of quiet and the
Holy Spirit gave me a vision of

717
00:42:45,200 --> 00:42:48,720
a daughter and a son.
And the son was taller than the

718
00:42:48,720 --> 00:42:55,000
daughter, so obviously 1st.
And he laid his hands on my

719
00:42:55,000 --> 00:42:58,720
son's head and he said his name
is Josiah.

720
00:42:58,720 --> 00:43:00,720
He'll be the last good thing to
happen to Judah.

721
00:43:00,920 --> 00:43:04,280
And it was one of those visions,
not like a pizza dream where

722
00:43:04,280 --> 00:43:08,120
you're not sure, you know, is it
pizza or is it God or is this

723
00:43:08,120 --> 00:43:11,880
kind of 1/2 awake kind of thing?
It was a vision that kind of

724
00:43:11,880 --> 00:43:16,040
took over my sight, you know,
kind of thing.

725
00:43:16,720 --> 00:43:20,920
And I told everybody about it.
I said, this is what I, this is

726
00:43:20,920 --> 00:43:22,440
what I experienced.
This is what I saw.

727
00:43:22,720 --> 00:43:26,440
And I sunk my teeth into that.
And that's what kept me as I

728
00:43:26,440 --> 00:43:30,680
waited those long years.
Yeah.

729
00:43:31,560 --> 00:43:34,480
Tell us more about sinking your
teeth into that, because you're

730
00:43:34,480 --> 00:43:37,400
now describing essentially a
decade, right?

731
00:43:37,840 --> 00:43:40,040
Yes, right.
Exactly.

732
00:43:40,360 --> 00:43:47,080
So for me, it meant that what
God promises, God will do.

733
00:43:47,720 --> 00:43:50,040
I don't know what that's going
to look like.

734
00:43:50,160 --> 00:43:55,840
So I'll release my expectations
of that, but I will wait with

735
00:43:55,880 --> 00:43:59,600
expectancy that he's going to do
something.

736
00:44:00,240 --> 00:44:04,200
And so I would talk about it to
anyone who asked, when are you

737
00:44:04,200 --> 00:44:06,600
going to have kids?
Is a very common question for

738
00:44:06,600 --> 00:44:10,920
newlyweds for a very long time.
And it gets worse, by the way,

739
00:44:11,840 --> 00:44:16,080
as you go.
So I would tell people, I don't

740
00:44:16,080 --> 00:44:19,760
know when we're going to have
kids, but I know we will because

741
00:44:19,760 --> 00:44:22,000
this is what happened.
And they're like, oh, I've never

742
00:44:22,000 --> 00:44:23,560
had that happen to me.
Tell me more.

743
00:44:23,840 --> 00:44:26,920
So it was always a story that I
could share that would share

744
00:44:26,920 --> 00:44:30,120
more about an intimate
relationship with God that maybe

745
00:44:30,120 --> 00:44:33,400
they would desire more.
After having that conversation,

746
00:44:34,080 --> 00:44:36,120
my husband defended me.
He's like, it's my fault.

747
00:44:36,120 --> 00:44:38,400
I just don't want him right now.
You know, he would jump in.

748
00:44:38,400 --> 00:44:40,880
So it was it was great.
It wasn't all on me, you know,

749
00:44:40,880 --> 00:44:44,960
but here's conversations about
having kids, you know, for

750
00:44:45,280 --> 00:44:48,920
people when you're a newlywed
and into several years.

751
00:44:49,400 --> 00:44:55,680
And then I, I did, finally he's
came to me and he said, OK, I'm

752
00:44:55,920 --> 00:44:58,840
ready to have kids.
I've done all the travelling,

753
00:44:58,840 --> 00:45:01,160
I've eaten where I wanted to
eat, I've done shopped where I

754
00:45:01,160 --> 00:45:04,040
wanted to shop and I'm bored,
let's have kids.

755
00:45:04,120 --> 00:45:08,400
And so, yeah, he said let's,
let's start.

756
00:45:08,400 --> 00:45:13,320
And so we started.
And, you know, up up to a

757
00:45:13,320 --> 00:45:15,520
certain point, that's pretty
easy.

758
00:45:15,520 --> 00:45:21,000
But then I got pregnant and then
I lost that baby and that that

759
00:45:21,000 --> 00:45:23,720
was hard because this is not,
I'm not going to compare myself

760
00:45:23,720 --> 00:45:27,440
to Abraham and the whole Isaac
thing, but this is my own kind

761
00:45:27,440 --> 00:45:31,320
of Abraham and Isaac thing
because here is the long-awaited

762
00:45:31,320 --> 00:45:35,760
promised in my belly and it is
no longer there.

763
00:45:36,040 --> 00:45:39,600
That's a hard moment.
And then I said to my husband

764
00:45:39,600 --> 00:45:42,600
and my mother-in-law and anybody
else who was around, and I said

765
00:45:43,360 --> 00:45:46,840
it must not be my son and I'm
going to wait.

766
00:45:47,360 --> 00:45:50,800
I even went in for a sonogram
when I was pregnant with my son.

767
00:45:51,040 --> 00:45:53,080
And the sonogram gal told me it
was a girl.

768
00:45:53,080 --> 00:45:56,160
It's like, Nope, it's a boy.
Everybody was trying to tell me

769
00:45:56,160 --> 00:45:57,960
it was a girl.
It's like, Nope, it's a boy.

770
00:45:57,960 --> 00:46:00,320
I already know it's a blonde
haired boy.

771
00:46:00,680 --> 00:46:06,160
And when I birthed him at home,
which was a delight, I, they put

772
00:46:06,160 --> 00:46:09,720
him in my arms and they said, Oh
yeah, it's a head full of blonde

773
00:46:09,720 --> 00:46:11,240
hair.
And I was like, I already knew.

774
00:46:11,600 --> 00:46:16,520
I already knew.
Yeah, and I suspect you named

775
00:46:16,520 --> 00:46:19,320
him Josiah.
It did, yes.

776
00:46:19,720 --> 00:46:23,480
Josiah.
His full name means healed and

777
00:46:23,480 --> 00:46:26,840
supported by the fire of a
gracious God to the victorious

778
00:46:26,840 --> 00:46:28,240
end.
He has quite a name.

779
00:46:30,360 --> 00:46:32,880
Yeah, that's for sure.
Wow.

780
00:46:33,280 --> 00:46:35,840
That's where you can heap out on
thanks.

781
00:46:35,840 --> 00:46:38,120
Yeah.
My daughter's name, she came

782
00:46:38,120 --> 00:46:40,600
about two years later.
Three years later.

783
00:46:40,600 --> 00:46:44,360
Excuse me.
Her name is Cassia and her full

784
00:46:44,360 --> 00:46:48,920
name means broken and crushed to
perfection by God through prayer

785
00:46:48,920 --> 00:46:52,480
to the victorious end.
Wow, a lot of gravity in those

786
00:46:52,480 --> 00:46:53,560
names.
Yeah.

787
00:46:55,240 --> 00:46:58,880
Kathy, I think you've got a
really unique opportunity right

788
00:46:58,880 --> 00:47:04,600
here in this moment to help
inspire some hope for folks.

789
00:47:05,080 --> 00:47:08,800
And I'm and I'm with with the
question that I'm going to ask

790
00:47:08,800 --> 00:47:15,280
you and that is you were talking
about waiting with expectancy.

791
00:47:16,520 --> 00:47:21,360
And the reason why I think
you're so well positioned to

792
00:47:21,480 --> 00:47:27,560
talk about this is that 10 years
for almost everything is not a

793
00:47:27,560 --> 00:47:30,160
short period of time, you know
what I mean?

794
00:47:30,640 --> 00:47:38,040
So you've got actual experience
waiting with expectancy and I

795
00:47:38,040 --> 00:47:43,040
want I'd love to hear more about
that and how you were so

796
00:47:43,040 --> 00:47:47,880
convicted.
God is who He says He is, and

797
00:47:48,040 --> 00:47:51,680
one of the things I knew was
that I was not so special that I

798
00:47:51,680 --> 00:47:55,320
was going to be the first person
he let down or the first person

799
00:47:55,320 --> 00:47:59,160
he promised something to and
didn't come through for, or the

800
00:47:59,160 --> 00:48:03,160
first person that he lied to or
the first person that he failed.

801
00:48:04,080 --> 00:48:07,280
I'm not that special for the God
of the universe, for the very

802
00:48:07,280 --> 00:48:09,360
first time to drop the ball with
me.

803
00:48:09,440 --> 00:48:14,960
It's not going to happen.
So I was confident that the God

804
00:48:14,960 --> 00:48:18,000
who did it in the past is the
God who will do it again in the

805
00:48:18,000 --> 00:48:20,520
future.
And I think that's a very

806
00:48:20,520 --> 00:48:24,760
important part of my life
mission.

807
00:48:25,240 --> 00:48:31,200
If God is the God who sees Hagar
in the desert, he's the God who

808
00:48:31,200 --> 00:48:36,720
sees us now and sees the
injustice that's done to us now

809
00:48:36,720 --> 00:48:39,480
or the justice injustice done to
me in the past.

810
00:48:40,000 --> 00:48:46,480
And if he is Jehovah Jireh to
Abraham, which basically means

811
00:48:46,480 --> 00:48:50,000
the same thing, but it says
because God sees he's going to

812
00:48:50,000 --> 00:48:55,840
do something about it, or if
he's the judge, or if he's the

813
00:48:55,840 --> 00:49:00,040
shepherd, who's going to guide
me if he was that way in the

814
00:49:00,040 --> 00:49:05,000
past, because he never changes.
He said I, the Lord, do not

815
00:49:05,000 --> 00:49:07,680
change.
There's no shadow of change in

816
00:49:07,680 --> 00:49:10,600
me because he's the God who did
it once.

817
00:49:10,600 --> 00:49:12,440
He's the God who do it again
now.

818
00:49:12,440 --> 00:49:15,520
I fully expect at some point in
time to see somebody tell a

819
00:49:15,520 --> 00:49:18,440
story about a burning Bush.
Like everything he's done in the

820
00:49:18,440 --> 00:49:21,680
past, he will, can and will do
again.

821
00:49:21,680 --> 00:49:26,440
Because not because he wants to
show off, but because it's his

822
00:49:26,440 --> 00:49:29,560
nature to do those things.
It's his nature to have a

823
00:49:29,560 --> 00:49:32,000
relationship.
It's his nature to show up.

824
00:49:32,480 --> 00:49:35,520
It's his nature to lead Angel
armies and deliver you out of

825
00:49:35,520 --> 00:49:39,040
the hands of an enemy.
This is what he does, and what

826
00:49:39,040 --> 00:49:41,440
he does is never separated from
who he is.

827
00:49:41,440 --> 00:49:45,000
The 2 are always together in
tandem.

828
00:49:45,520 --> 00:49:47,480
That's what it means to be a
faithful God.

829
00:49:47,840 --> 00:49:54,840
So hope to me looks like knowing
that the God who did it once,

830
00:49:55,400 --> 00:49:58,960
the God who promises it and
always, always fulfills his

831
00:49:58,960 --> 00:50:05,600
promise, it's going to happen.
But my part, this is, I think

832
00:50:05,760 --> 00:50:10,440
the hard part, my part is
letting go of what it might look

833
00:50:10,440 --> 00:50:12,880
like.
I had to let go with whether or

834
00:50:12,880 --> 00:50:15,880
not those children would be
birthed from me, like maybe they

835
00:50:15,880 --> 00:50:18,320
dropped off at my doorstep.
I don't know.

836
00:50:19,080 --> 00:50:21,600
But I was going to trust that I
would get those children.

837
00:50:22,000 --> 00:50:25,600
And I knew that one was a boy,
what was a girl?

838
00:50:25,920 --> 00:50:29,400
And those are my 2.
I wanted 10 but two will do.

839
00:50:30,440 --> 00:50:33,560
Thanks, Kathy.
That's really helpful.

840
00:50:34,120 --> 00:50:36,720
I think so many people are going
to be blessed by hearing all of

841
00:50:36,720 --> 00:50:38,080
that.
And I mean that.

842
00:50:38,680 --> 00:50:43,560
Thank you.
We, we've covered a lot of

843
00:50:43,560 --> 00:50:47,040
ground.
This has been fabulous from my

844
00:50:47,040 --> 00:50:50,680
perspective.
And as we land our conversation,

845
00:50:51,080 --> 00:50:55,120
we ask all of our guests 2
questions, and the first of

846
00:50:55,120 --> 00:51:00,200
which is were the things that
you've described, and you've

847
00:51:00,200 --> 00:51:03,360
described a lot here, right?
But let's talk about things like

848
00:51:03,680 --> 00:51:07,960
the need or the prompt to speak
James right over that particular

849
00:51:07,960 --> 00:51:13,440
person or pray James, or the
vision of Josiah and your

850
00:51:13,440 --> 00:51:16,000
daughter.
There's all kinds of different

851
00:51:16,000 --> 00:51:19,560
things that you described
throughout this conversation.

852
00:51:19,560 --> 00:51:24,760
Were those things, Kathy
coincidence that they occurred,

853
00:51:25,280 --> 00:51:29,800
or was that God in action?
Well, I think the proof is in

854
00:51:29,800 --> 00:51:34,880
the pudding.
So if it was a coincidence, and

855
00:51:34,880 --> 00:51:37,360
by the way, you really can only
have one coincidence.

856
00:51:37,560 --> 00:51:41,320
You can't have a lot of them.
So the sheer number is kind of

857
00:51:41,320 --> 00:51:47,440
helpful to dispel that one.
But the key thing is the proof.

858
00:51:47,880 --> 00:51:51,040
And I do think that's why we're
supposed to have fruit because

859
00:51:51,040 --> 00:51:55,080
it's the proof.
If God is speaking and you say

860
00:51:55,080 --> 00:51:59,960
what he says and then he does
what he, you spoke through you

861
00:51:59,960 --> 00:52:03,160
to say to that person, then you
know it was God.

862
00:52:03,880 --> 00:52:06,720
I know that there are people who
who will just throw things out

863
00:52:06,720 --> 00:52:09,600
there and say any old thing that
they want to say, and there are

864
00:52:09,600 --> 00:52:12,280
people like that, but there has
to be fruit.

865
00:52:12,280 --> 00:52:14,840
You have to look at the fruit.
Is it coming to pass?

866
00:52:14,840 --> 00:52:16,960
Is it coming true?
Yep.

867
00:52:16,960 --> 00:52:19,360
And Yep.
So that's when we know it's

868
00:52:19,680 --> 00:52:25,960
proved that this was God.
Yeah, really, really neat that

869
00:52:25,960 --> 00:52:28,400
you describe it that way.
You're actually not the first

870
00:52:28,400 --> 00:52:31,320
that has used almost that exact
phrase.

871
00:52:32,680 --> 00:52:37,040
And I say that not to take any,
any originality away, but truly

872
00:52:37,040 --> 00:52:41,080
just to to, you know, affirm and
reaffirm what you each have

873
00:52:41,080 --> 00:52:44,040
said.
So how has your life changed,

874
00:52:44,040 --> 00:52:48,000
Kathy, based on everything that
you've described for us?

875
00:52:50,400 --> 00:52:55,840
I think the main thing that has
changed for me looking back at

876
00:52:55,840 --> 00:52:59,040
that 17 almost 18 year old
getting married.

877
00:52:59,800 --> 00:53:02,960
The main thing that has changed
is that I have proven him to

878
00:53:02,960 --> 00:53:08,640
myself over and over again and
I'm awfully good and awfully

879
00:53:08,640 --> 00:53:16,280
fast at finding out what he's
doing in a situation instead of

880
00:53:16,280 --> 00:53:20,680
waiting to ask 10,000 other
people for their advice.

881
00:53:21,600 --> 00:53:26,880
Though I love advice or even
worrying about something before

882
00:53:26,880 --> 00:53:33,320
I take it to him or in the in
the case of prayer, going down A

883
00:53:33,320 --> 00:53:36,400
to do list, you know, and
praying that one of those

884
00:53:36,400 --> 00:53:38,960
prayers is going to hit the
heart of God and get me what I'm

885
00:53:38,960 --> 00:53:41,400
asking for.
I don't pray like that anymore.

886
00:53:42,120 --> 00:53:44,600
I asked him, what do you want?
What are you doing?

887
00:53:44,600 --> 00:53:48,560
What are you after?
And then he tells me and just

888
00:53:48,560 --> 00:53:51,440
like we just said, when it
proves to be true that I'm like,

889
00:53:51,440 --> 00:53:55,200
OK, that was you.
Sometimes it's very specific.

890
00:53:55,200 --> 00:54:00,520
Like right after I had Josiah, I
felt blessed to have a child

891
00:54:00,520 --> 00:54:04,920
with such help that I began to
pray for other women who did not

892
00:54:04,920 --> 00:54:06,560
have that same blessing.
And their children were going

893
00:54:06,560 --> 00:54:10,000
through so much.
And so it was intense prayer

894
00:54:10,000 --> 00:54:12,320
session sometimes.
And they would post this,

895
00:54:12,440 --> 00:54:16,560
there's groups on Facebook and
they'd say something like pray

896
00:54:16,560 --> 00:54:18,960
fast.
My, my, the doctor just came in

897
00:54:18,960 --> 00:54:21,040
and said that if she doesn't get
a kidney today, she's going to

898
00:54:21,040 --> 00:54:23,080
die.
Like that kind of life and death

899
00:54:23,080 --> 00:54:24,800
situation.
I'm not talking about pray for

900
00:54:24,800 --> 00:54:27,640
me so that I can get this job or
not get this job, which is a

901
00:54:27,640 --> 00:54:29,960
fine prayer too, but it's just
not life and death.

902
00:54:30,560 --> 00:54:33,960
And so I would ask the Lord,
what do you want me to pray for

903
00:54:33,960 --> 00:54:36,320
this?
And I would pray specifically

904
00:54:36,320 --> 00:54:39,280
what he said, even if I didn't
understand the medical jargon.

905
00:54:39,280 --> 00:54:45,240
I just prayed whatever he said.
And then after I felt released,

906
00:54:45,600 --> 00:54:49,080
done with the prayer time, I
would text the mom and say this

907
00:54:49,080 --> 00:54:51,120
is what I prayed for, this is
what I felt.

908
00:54:51,120 --> 00:54:57,400
I heard blessings and many
times, not dozens more like

909
00:54:58,000 --> 00:55:02,320
maybe closer to 60-70 times,
they would text me back and say

910
00:55:02,440 --> 00:55:06,160
things like, I can't tell you
but this just happened.

911
00:55:06,360 --> 00:55:09,280
The one I was just giving an
example of, she said the kidney

912
00:55:09,280 --> 00:55:13,600
arrived as you texted me.
OK, that's God.

913
00:55:13,600 --> 00:55:17,080
It's not coincidence, you know,
and, and putting yourself out

914
00:55:17,080 --> 00:55:20,800
there to say, I really feel like
this is what God said to me is,

915
00:55:20,920 --> 00:55:23,080
you know, it's a scary thing,
but I'm bold now.

916
00:55:23,080 --> 00:55:24,920
It's like, what do I have to
lose?

917
00:55:24,920 --> 00:55:28,400
If he has told me before, he'll
tell me again he's going to

918
00:55:28,400 --> 00:55:30,840
move.
He's been doing it all along.

919
00:55:30,840 --> 00:55:32,240
People are just not trained to
see it.

920
00:55:32,680 --> 00:55:35,160
And so I'd say that's the big
difference is I'm more trained

921
00:55:35,160 --> 00:55:37,800
to see it now.
Yeah.

922
00:55:38,680 --> 00:55:42,080
And perhaps much more willing to
see it, right.

923
00:55:42,400 --> 00:55:45,000
I mean, clearly you're
describing a discipline in that,

924
00:55:45,000 --> 00:55:47,080
right, in terms of in the
training.

925
00:55:48,920 --> 00:55:54,920
Yeah.
Wow, Kathy, thank you.

926
00:55:55,400 --> 00:55:57,800
You're welcome.
Thank you for breaking this

927
00:55:57,800 --> 00:55:59,560
down.
Thank you for sharing with

928
00:55:59,560 --> 00:56:03,040
transparency and with honesty
and with insight.

929
00:56:03,840 --> 00:56:06,520
It's been a wonderful
conversation when you look is

930
00:56:06,560 --> 00:56:11,160
literally powered these
incredible stories from ordinary

931
00:56:11,160 --> 00:56:13,840
people and you have truly
blessed us today.

932
00:56:13,840 --> 00:56:15,400
So thank you.
Thank you.

933
00:56:17,640 --> 00:56:21,400
I appreciate you having me.
I hope your audience is is able

934
00:56:21,400 --> 00:56:24,160
to take sink their teeth into
it.

935
00:56:24,160 --> 00:56:25,880
Take it and sink their teeth
into it.

936
00:56:26,760 --> 00:56:34,880
Yeah, me as well.
Was it coincidence or God?

937
00:56:35,480 --> 00:56:40,120
You decide for yourself, but I
believe you just heard a story

938
00:56:40,120 --> 00:56:44,080
for His glory.
When You Look is powered by

939
00:56:44,080 --> 00:56:47,640
stories just like this and yours
could be next.

940
00:56:48,000 --> 00:56:52,240
Go to whenyoulook.com/be a guest
or use the link in the

941
00:56:52,240 --> 00:56:56,200
description below.
Drop us a comment and share this

942
00:56:56,200 --> 00:56:58,320
episode with somebody that needs
it.

943
00:56:58,880 --> 00:57:03,080
Until next time, thanks a bunch
for listening and watching, and

944
00:57:03,080 --> 00:57:03,880
God bless.