I Told God I Didn’t Want to Get Nailed | Brad Church | 045

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I said, Lord, I, I really want
to go to work to church and

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worship you, but I don't want to
get nailed.

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I, I ended up going to church
that Sunday morning and the

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pastor was down there talking
about just some basic truths in

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Scripture.
And he had the ushers pass

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around a basket.
And so as the basket came by, I

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looked down and I immediately
had to smile because what was in

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that basket was a bunch of 6
inch nails.

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Welcome to When You Look, where
ordinary people share their

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extraordinary experiences and
you get to decide, was it

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coincidence or God?
Brad, welcome to When You Look.

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So Great to have you on the
show.

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Thank you, Nick.
It's great to be here.

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Well, 100% man.
We are excited to hear your

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story and it's a very
interesting and compelling

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story.
But before we get to it, tell us

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a little bit about yourself.
Well, my name is Brad.

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And as you heard Mick saying,
and I first came to faith in

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Christ at the age of 6 and I'll
be 69 next month.

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So I've been fighting this faith
battle for a little while.

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Hasn't always been smooth and
I've gone down some rocky roads

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and you know, had seasons in my
life where I wish the Holy

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Spirit just leave me alone
because I didn't want to change.

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And I have really come to a
point where I'm more surrendered

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than at any other time in life.
I spent about 4550 years in the

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secular work world, graduated
from Bible college when I was in

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my 20s but never really entered
full time ministry.

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And now that I am retired from
corporate work, I'm just

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enjoying exploring God's Word
more, sharing his truths with

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people, and fulfilling what was
a dream many years in the

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secular word of wanting to to
help people learn more about

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Jesus.
I'm now fulfilling that dream in

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my retirement year since his
having a blast.

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Yeah, awesome man.
Well, thanks a bunch for all

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that background.
I think we'll probably get a

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little more insight into some of
those introductory comments here

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as we explore your story a
little bit more.

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So let's jump right in, give us
a bit of background and then

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walk us through things as they
unfolded for you.

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Well.
In my in my early 30s, a friend

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of mine and I started a business
in an industry.

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I was living in Southern
California at the time and he

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and I had gone to Bible college
and we started a business and

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we're doing really well for a
period of time.

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But in a matter of the 1994, in
a matter of about six months,

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all of the work in that industry
that was done domestically moved

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to Taiwan and we were faced with
having to close that business.

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And, and then anybody out there
who's ever started a business,

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you know, you invest your whole
self, your whole being into

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that, that project.
And when it comes to a close, it

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can be really devastating.
And for me, it was devastating.

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It put me in a, in a spiral in
my own perception of who I was

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and, and God's provision and,
and all of those things for many

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years, for probably about eight
years.

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And in, in that time, I moved
back to Oregon where I grew up,

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tried to find work and finally
found work as a temporary worker

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and making about $8 an hour when
before I was, I had the skills

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in that industry to, to make a
healthy 6 figure income.

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And it was just emotionally,
intellectually, spiritually in

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every way just devastating to me
in the low point of my life, so

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much so that we lost everything
financially.

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And through that process, I
ended up getting a divorce and

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going through a nasty custody
battle.

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And, and all of the things, you
know, imagine some of the worst

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things that can happen with
those scenarios.

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And that's, that's some of what
I walked through during that

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time.
And I had towards the end of

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that time in, in about 2003, I
had not been to church in a

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number of years.
I, I just, you know, there is

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such inner conflict and, and
inner turmoil and, and inner

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uncertainty that, that just
being around church was, was

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very, very difficult.
And there was, I was watching TV

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one Saturday night and there was
a commercial for a new church

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that was starting in a town not
far from me.

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And it was starting in a movie
theater.

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And I thought, well, that's kind
of kind of unique.

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That's kind of different, you
know?

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And then the the, it showed the,
the picture of who the pastors

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were going to be.
And those pastors I had met

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about 3 or 30 years before 2530
years before, they were good

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friends with my pastors in the
late 70s.

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And, and I got to meet them and,
and I had heard, you know, their

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name throughout the, through the
denomination through the years.

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So I, I knew who they were.
And I thought, oh, well, that's

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really cool that they're here.
And, and so I don't know if it

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was that next Sunday morning or
a Sunday morning soon after

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that, that I just, I, I wanted,
I wanted to go to church just to

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worship God.
I was hungry just to worship God

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and to know his, his presence.
And, and I had a lot of battles

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during that, that period of time
where I, I expressed my anger to

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God.
I expressed my frustration to

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God and my uncertainty to God.
And that in my, my deepest times

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of emotional turmoil, I, I heard
one thing in my spirit.

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And that one thing was I love
you.

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And that stopped all of my
arguments.

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It was perplexing.
So that that Sunday morning I

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wanted to to go to church and
and worship God.

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And you know, I said these words
to God.

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I said, Lord, I really want to
go to work to church and worship

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you, but I don't want to get
nailed.

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And what I meant by that was I
don't want some super spiritual,

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hyper religious person coming up
to me and say, are you going to

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church?
You know, you need to go to

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church, you need to repent, you
need to, you know, I, I didn't

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want that.
And you know, in some

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evangelical Pentecostal circles,
that's, that could happen a lot,

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you know, especially in, in that
time in our, in our history.

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So I decided I ended up going to
church that Sunday morning and,

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and it was in a movie theater.
It was a small theater and had

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the elevated seats, you know,
and you kind of look down at

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the, at the stage and the pastor
was down there talking about

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just some basic truths in
Scripture that he wanted to, to

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cover some basic truths this
morning.

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And he had the ushers pass
around a basket.

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And as the basket was going
around, he said, I, I want

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everyone here to take one of the
things you see in that basket

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out and take it home.
It's a reminder.

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And so as the basket came by, I
looked down and I immediately

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had to smile because what was in
that basket was a bunch of 6

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inch nails.
And I pulled out one of those

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nails and that nail is mounted
on the wall today as a reminder

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to me that I didn't want to go
to church and get nailed.

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But God nailed me in a way that
I didn't expect, and it was a

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pivotal point in my life.
And I made a connection with

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those pastors at that time, you
know, the years before, they

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didn't know who I was.
They didn't remember who I was.

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But it's interesting that God
orchestrated that 25 years

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before for that moment, because
had it not been them, I may not

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have been prompted to go to that
church.

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And so I, I, you know, about 7
or 8 months later, I got full

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custody of my daughter because
of my wife's mental health

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issues and my ex wife's mental
health issues.

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And so at that time I decided,
you know, it's time to really

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get back to church and, and you
know, get serious about getting

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my life in order for my
daughter.

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And that's when I started going
back to church at at their

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church.
Wow.

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I don't want to go to church
because I don't want to get

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nailed, but I want to go to
church because I want to worship

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you.
And the only thing in the bag or

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the basket as it goes around is
a six inch nail one for

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basically everybody that was in
attendance.

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Wow.
Praise God, Brad, Praise God.

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Yeah, they woke me up to the
fact that that all of those, all

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of those times that I poured out
my anguish to God, he heard me

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if he could hear me say I don't
want to get nailed and nail me,

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he heard me all of those times.
So.

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Yeah, well, let's go back to
some of those times because I

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think this is really important
for people to hear.

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Describe for us a little bit
about the types of emotions and

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the words that you would be
using as you sort of laid things

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out in from some frustration and
some anger to God.

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Well, the situation was that
that my wife and I got divorced

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and mostly because I screwed up
in some big ways.

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And partly the reason I screwed
up was because of, of her mental

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illness and my lack of
understanding how what was

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happening in our relationship
and, and in her life.

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And so I, I had failed miserably
in that regard.

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And so there was a lot of of
guilt, condemnation because of

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the business failure.
I felt like, you know, the same

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thing, guilt, condemnation, self
recrimination, I'll never about

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to anything and just feeling
like, you know, so many times I

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had prayed and asked God for
direction and here I I ended up,

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I prep divorced, alone, angry,
frustrated, you know, making

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enough money to barely scrape
by.

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And I and it was just, I didn't
understand how I got to that

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point, you know, and the
interesting thing is when God

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moved in my life and, and worked
it all out, understanding how I

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got to that point was probably
the least important thing.

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Least important, you said.
Important thing yeah, because,

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you know, we we all walk through
this is kind of off the point of

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your question, but we all route
we all find ourselves in in

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struggles and trials and and
sometimes they're self-imposed

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by our own choices, by our own
stupidity, by our own rebellion,

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whatever it is.
And sometimes there's things

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that come along, but I'd like to
call the Hurricanes of life just

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things that are completely out
of our control.

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You know, like all of the
business going to Taiwan was

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completely out of our control.
And yet God is is there in the

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midst of those things, man, he
uses those things to shape us.

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You know, Paul says he's
building perseverance and

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patience.
And the end result of all of

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that is that we have a hope in
Christ, right?

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And some of us are thicker
headed than others and need to

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go through the ringer a little
bit more.

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But it, it was, it's just
interesting looking back how and

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I still feel some of those
frustrations that because for

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different reasons, you know, I
think we all all feel those at

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times in our lives.
But this, that, that frustration

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of having, having a vision of,
of what we want to do in life,

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whether it's in ministry or, or
in a career or whatever, and

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running against obstacle,
against obstacle after obstacle

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and have not being able to, to
reach those times.

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And, and I remember feeling like
so many times, it felt like I

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was trying to breakthrough a
concrete wall to find a way to,

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to live that was that, that
would help me move forward and,

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and be an effective person in
life.

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And so there's those kinds of of
frustrations, you know, just

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exerting myself against a
concrete wall.

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And, and I, I think a lot of it
was just a, a failure to

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surrender and a failure to rely
on, on God totally for

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everything and to trust that,
that in the midst of all of

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those frustrations, he was
working.

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So there's lots of, you know,
there was anger, there was

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frustration, there was
desperation.

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There was just a, a, a vacuum
of, of understanding of what was

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going on and what my purpose was
so.

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Yeah.
Well, you had described, Brad,

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how God's response during these
periods or one big long period

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was, I love you.
Yes.

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How did that get communicated to
you?

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It was just a whisper in my
heart, you know, It was just an

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awareness.
I clearly remember standing in

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my living room and, and pacing
and this, you know, expressing

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all of this stuff.
And when I finally stopped and

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listened, it was just this inner
awareness that God was speaking

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to me and saying I love you and
it's what I needed to hear.

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You know, I, I didn't know how
to process it necessarily.

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I didn't know how to move
forward with that, but it was

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just a gentle reassurance that I
wasn't alone, you know, and it,

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it helped me.
It helped me realize that maybe

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all of this would work out
because in those specific times

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the situation was that because
of of my ex wife's mental

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illness she would not allow me
to see our daughter because she

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thought I was just a horrible
monster.

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And.
Pretty common in, in people that

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have mental illness, you know,
they, they create this

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monstrosity of an ex.
And it's interesting that, that

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I see my daughter now and she
says, thank you for being the

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safe parent.
You know, so I, I was in this

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situation where I was being
falsely accused and, and just

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not able to see my daughter and
going through legal processes

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that that would take time and
they're trying to serve her with

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papers and they couldn't find
her.

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And that's just, it was a very
frustrating and and heart

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wrenching timing.
Yeah, over roughly how long?

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From the tie in, the worst of it
started to the time I got

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custody was probably about six
months.

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Yeah.
And it took about 3 1/2 months

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from the time I engaged with an
attorney to get the custody

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issue settled.
So.

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Yeah, but you were also talking
moments ago about that concrete

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wall and a lack of surrender.
Bring those two things together

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for us a little more.
The concrete wall was my

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expectation running contrary to
God's purpose.

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And you know, when I got out of
Bible college, I made the choice

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not to, not to pursue more
education, not to go into full

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time ministry.
And that that decision haunted

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me for many years, especially
after the nail and I started,

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you know, getting back in the
Lord and, and seeing how a lot

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of my decisions had brought me
to an inflection point.

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And as it just to jump forward a
little bit, there was a time I

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was on a hike and just
ruminating about that issue of

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God, I'm sorry.
I didn't, you know, make a

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different choice back there so
many years.

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And and like that voice that
said I love you in the midst of

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my turmoil years before, I just
sensed God to say, I forgive

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you.
And it was such a freeing moment

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in my life.
You know that.

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Yeah, you messed up, but I
forgive you.

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Let's start today and move
forward.

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You know, and and God has like
that, you know, he, he wipes to

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slate clean.
We may experience circumstances

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like David experienced
consequences of his sin, right.

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We may experience consequences
from our sin, but the slate is

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clean and God has washed all
that away and wants to use this

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today so that concrete wall and
and surrender.

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I think I I wanted God to
endorse my plans more than I

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wanted to to submit to his and
that goes all the way back the

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00:18:52,360 --> 00:18:54,080
decision not to go into
ministry.

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You know, I, I think had I had I
spent more time pursuing his

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will back when I got out of
Bible college, I, I definitely

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would have made a different
choice and probably would have

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saved myself a lot of agony in
life.

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Wanted God to endorse my will.
Yeah, big one.

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Lots of insight there, Brad.
Well, take us to what I'll call

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post being nailed.
OK?

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You started to allude to some of
this just moments ago about the

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hike and those types of things,
but you have this very distinct

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00:19:44,960 --> 00:19:52,200
experience at the church and
give us a sense for what happens

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after that in life.
But when we started going, when

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I got custody of my daughter and
started going to church

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regularly, you know, during
times of worship, there was just

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tears flowing from my face for
probably a good six months.

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It was just a real time of, of
repentance and growing in God

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and just being washed, sensing
God's forgiveness and seeing

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him.
Re established my life work wise

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00:20:28,040 --> 00:20:33,520
I I had the opportunity to
advance from $8 an hour

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00:20:34,000 --> 00:20:38,520
warehouse worker to helping my
boss manage three warehouse

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00:20:38,520 --> 00:20:43,600
operations across the country.
So God was doing things in every

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00:20:43,600 --> 00:20:48,160
aspect of my life and got
connected with a really good

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00:20:48,160 --> 00:20:54,080
church and stayed connected with
those people for gosh, probably

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00:20:54,360 --> 00:20:56,920
but I still have breakfast with
some of the men about once a

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00:20:56,920 --> 00:21:00,320
month.
The church is no longer viable,

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00:21:00,320 --> 00:21:05,560
but and we've all moved on, but
it's just a very precious time

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00:21:05,560 --> 00:21:12,800
in life that that church evolved
into a church where we met on

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00:21:12,800 --> 00:21:16,840
Saturday evenings and had a
potluck in a worship time and a

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00:21:16,840 --> 00:21:18,960
time of teaching in a time of
prayer.

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00:21:19,400 --> 00:21:23,120
And we would spend about 3 hours
a week together on Saturday

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00:21:23,120 --> 00:21:27,040
night.
And that core group of about 20

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00:21:27,040 --> 00:21:30,480
to 25 people was our church for
eight or nine years.

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I've since been remarried that
remarried and have a wonderful

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00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:41,040
wife and and two great step kids
and enjoying family in in that

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00:21:41,040 --> 00:21:43,400
regard.
My daughter is is grown up and

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00:21:43,840 --> 00:21:47,160
struggles with some of the same
mental health issues that her

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00:21:47,160 --> 00:21:51,680
her mother struggled with.
But she is committed to Jesus

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00:21:51,800 --> 00:21:56,800
and managing her life very well.
I'm really proud of her for for

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00:21:56,800 --> 00:21:59,120
what she's been able to to deal
in life.

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00:22:00,400 --> 00:22:04,480
Yeah.
Well, we land the plane here on

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00:22:04,480 --> 00:22:08,400
when you look Brad, with two
primary questions, the first of

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00:22:08,400 --> 00:22:14,960
which is was the getting nailed
coincidence or God?

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00:22:14,960 --> 00:22:18,200
And I got a pretty good idea of
how you're going to respond to

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00:22:18,200 --> 00:22:21,240
this one, but we ask it
nonetheless.

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00:22:21,240 --> 00:22:28,040
So, coincidence, Brad or God?
It was definitely God, and those

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00:22:28,040 --> 00:22:31,360
kinds of experiences have
convinced me that that for the

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00:22:31,440 --> 00:22:35,720
the person who believes in
Jesus, there's no such thing as

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00:22:35,720 --> 00:22:39,680
a coincidence.
Yeah.

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00:22:40,520 --> 00:22:42,720
What do you think about the
person that doesn't believe in

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00:22:42,720 --> 00:22:45,480
Jesus?
Is there a coincidence?

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00:22:47,280 --> 00:22:53,360
Maybe, maybe, but I think God,
you know, is working even in the

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00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:55,960
unbelievers life.
I mean, God desires that every

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00:22:55,960 --> 00:22:58,360
person be saved, right?
That's what what we're told in

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00:22:58,360 --> 00:23:01,920
scripture that God's heart is
that every person would turn to

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00:23:01,920 --> 00:23:03,480
him and be in relationship with
him.

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00:23:03,480 --> 00:23:08,800
So I've got to believe that he's
giving people clues and hints

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00:23:08,800 --> 00:23:12,880
and you know that, hey, I'm
here, turn to me.

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00:23:13,320 --> 00:23:17,960
And so I'm I'm not sure
coincidence is a is a real thing

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00:23:18,320 --> 00:23:21,560
in anybody's life.
Yeah, gotcha.

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00:23:22,440 --> 00:23:27,360
Well, how has your life changed
as a result of getting nailed?

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00:23:27,600 --> 00:23:30,920
You describing it not as
coincidence, but instead of got

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00:23:30,920 --> 00:23:33,640
an action type of moment and the
other things that you've kind of

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00:23:33,640 --> 00:23:36,760
talked about this whole time.
How has life changed for you?

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00:23:38,440 --> 00:23:40,520
Well, it's, it's become a lot
more peaceful.

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00:23:40,840 --> 00:23:46,120
You know, I, I think I'm, I'm
still learning.

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00:23:46,200 --> 00:23:50,120
I, I can't say I've learned, but
I'm still learning to surrender

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00:23:50,120 --> 00:23:53,720
and, and trust God in the, in
the challenging times, you know,

337
00:23:55,520 --> 00:24:00,560
and definitely have made some
really solid connections with,

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00:24:00,560 --> 00:24:05,080
with other believers in the Lord
And God is allowing me to, to do

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00:24:05,080 --> 00:24:11,560
some ministry, which is, is fun.
And I, I still think back

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00:24:11,560 --> 00:24:15,240
sometimes I wonder what life
might have been like had I made

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00:24:15,240 --> 00:24:18,480
different choices at, at one or
two points in life.

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00:24:18,560 --> 00:24:22,400
But you know, we just go down
that rabbit hole and it's

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00:24:22,440 --> 00:24:26,400
unproductive.
So I'm enjoying just trying to

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00:24:26,400 --> 00:24:31,760
hear what God's leading me to do
today and love my family and and

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00:24:31,920 --> 00:24:36,320
love other people and and share
the Gospel with people.

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00:24:37,760 --> 00:24:44,240
Yeah, Right on, Brad.
Thanks for laying it out man.

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00:24:44,960 --> 00:24:47,280
My pleasure.
Super, super neat.

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00:24:48,160 --> 00:24:50,840
I mean, truly, I said it
earlier, but I just think it is

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00:24:50,840 --> 00:24:56,880
so phenomenal and in a wonderful
way of praying.

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00:24:56,920 --> 00:24:59,600
I don't want to go to church
because I don't want to get

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00:24:59,600 --> 00:25:01,040
nailed.
Yes.

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00:25:01,640 --> 00:25:08,320
And then the physical.
The physical thing is a six inch

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00:25:08,320 --> 00:25:14,080
nail.
I mean, so, so neat.

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00:25:14,200 --> 00:25:19,080
And what I think is frankly,
even much better than just those

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00:25:19,760 --> 00:25:25,920
elements is your recognition
ultimately that, hey, this is

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00:25:25,920 --> 00:25:30,560
clearly him, you know, and among
other things, it changed your

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00:25:30,560 --> 00:25:32,880
life.
So we really appreciate you

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00:25:32,880 --> 00:25:36,720
laying it all out for us, man.
Thank you much Bunch for being

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00:25:36,720 --> 00:25:38,600
here on When you look.
You've been a great

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00:25:38,600 --> 00:25:40,080
conversation.
Thank you.

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00:25:40,160 --> 00:25:47,280
My pleasure.
Was it coincidence or God?

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00:25:47,800 --> 00:25:52,560
You decide for yourself, but I
believe you just heard a story

363
00:25:52,560 --> 00:25:56,520
for His glory.
When You Look is powered by

364
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stories just like this, and
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365
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366
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00:26:15,480 --> 00:26:16,280
God bless.