She Lost Her Baby, Not Her Faith | J. Harrington | 030

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God met me in those honest
prayers and it was just like a

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big tantrum, you know?
And it was like God was like,

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it's OK, go ahead and have your
feelings and I'll just be here

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when you're done.
Welcome to When You Look, where

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ordinary people share their
extraordinary experiences and

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you get to decide, was it
coincidence or God?

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Jay, welcome to When You Look.
We are super pumped at that.

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You're here.
Thank you a bunch for being on

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the show.
I am so excited to be here and

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I'm like kind of turning down my
excitement a little bit so we

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can have a good conversation.
Well, no need to tone it down,

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we want to hear every bit of
your excitement come through.

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So super pumped to have you tell
us your absolutely amazing

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story.
But before we get to that, tell

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us a little bit about yourself.
Well, Jay is my nickname so my

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name is actually Hananya, but it
is a mouthful and just to make

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it easy on everyone, I just
shorten it down to Jay and I in

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my regular 95.
I am the digital content manager

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for Holy Coaster Radio.
So there's a Christian hip hop

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radio station on SiriusXM, so
check us out.

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And then on the times that I'm
not doing that, I am an

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officially a writer and my book
Swords Up, my Bible study,

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Swords Up has recently come out.
And so, yeah, it's a little bit

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about me.
Awesome.

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Well, thank you a bunch.
Congrats on Swords Up as well.

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Well, let's get into your story
because it certainly does

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include swords Up to some
degree, but there's so much more

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to it than that.
So start us off with a little

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bit of back story and then walk
us through things as they

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occurred for you.
OK, so I grew up in the church.

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My mom and dad were both born
again Christians and I went to

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church.
You know, I was hauling into

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church by my mom.
And even though they were

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divorced, they were still, you
know, very good parents.

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I was talking about the Bible,
making sure I read, making sure

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I was a good Christian girl.
And I did what a lot of us do.

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When I got to a point where I
didn't have to go to church and

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I had my own car, I was like,
peace out.

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I am not going to church.
And so I had did what one of my

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pastors said is I went chasing
after my own darkness.

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So that meant like I partied.
I maybe had like the friends

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that I shouldn't have.
And fun fact, I did all that

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while being married because I
got married at 19 to my high

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school sweetheart, which I I'm
still married.

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Thankfully, God's grace has been
really good to me.

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So my husband, he is an active
duty Marine, still an active

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duty, and he was gone a lot
during the first five years of

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our marriage.
So we just kind of did our own

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thing.
But then it got to the point

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where we got a little bit older
into our 30s and we're like, OK,

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maybe it's time to have kids
now.

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And so we had a beautiful baby
girl and her name is Ariel.

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She's 10 now.
And we just kind of did, you

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know, the mom and dad thing.
And as time progressed, my

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husband moved up in rank.
And then I decided that I wanted

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to go back to school to finish
my, my master's certificate in

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project management.
So I was project managing or

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trying to finish my master's
certificate, had a toddler at

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home.
And then I found out that I was

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pregnant while my husband was
coming in and out of the country

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because he's in Marine.
And so at the time, by this time

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in my life, I had had a very
come to Jesus moment like my, my

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drinking had gotten out of hand.
And the Lord pretty much said,

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if you keep going this way, I am
going to let you fall out.

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And I was like, no, thank you.
I'd I don't want to fall.

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He showed me like his hand and
then a feather.

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And then he's like, you are this
feather.

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I'm going to go like this and
I'm going to let you fall.

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And I just saw the feather just
going down, down, down.

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I was like, I don't, I don't, I
don't want that.

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No, thank you.
And so I recommitted my life to

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Jesus.
And that was right before I had

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my daughter.
So by the time that I became a

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mom, I was really in my church,
I was really in my Bible, really

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walking closely with Lord, thank
God.

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And so we had prayed for a boy
because my husband's family only

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has like 3 men left that can
carry on the line essentially.

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And so I said, Lord, if I could
give this gift to my, to my

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husband and to my father-in-law,
that were, these are amazing

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men, right?
And so I was granted that wish

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and I got pregnant with the boy
and I was so excited and like,

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talk about laughter.
I don't think I, I ever heard my

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father-in-law laugh until like
that day.

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He was just so, so excited, so
full of joy.

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But with everything going on and
I didn't have a support system.

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So Military Wives, we move
around a lot and families don't

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follow us, of course.
And then it always takes us a

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while to make friends.
So even when we do make a

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village, it, it does take time.
So I was pregnant with my son

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and I had no village.
I had crazy workload.

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Did I mention I was volunteering
for 40 hours on top of that?

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I probably didn't mention that,
but I was.

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And so all of this crazy stress
and I started to have a lot of

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bleeding my pregnancy and I was
in the doctor's a lot in the

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hospital.
They would keep me for

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observation and I would be in
the hospital like literally

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trying to finish my papers
because I was like, if I don't

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finish my master's before this
kiddo comes, like I'm never

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going to finish it.
So I had to get this done.

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So I was like typing.
I was hooked up to all kinds of

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monitors and I was doing my
thing.

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And anybody who knows me would
be like that.

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So, so, so I'm like typing away.
And they couldn't figure out

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anything that was amiss, so they
didn't test and they would just

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send me back home eventually.
So Fast forward and Hurricane

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Florence is on the way to North
Carolina.

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My parents live here, but we're
like, hey, the hospital's really

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close, not even two blocks from
our house, so let's just stay.

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That made sense.
So we did.

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And so we got all our supplies.
We were ready to rock'n'roll.

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And the night before the
hurricane hit, I was taking a

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shower and I just felt the Holy
Spirit tell me, get used to the

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idea you don't get to keep your
son.

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And I just lost it.
I cried.

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I cried so much.
I think I was in the shower like

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2 hours, like, you know, just
losing it and really, really

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hoping against a hope that I was
making stuff up.

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Because, you know, when you're
pregnant, you're hormonal and,

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you know, you make stuff up all
the time.

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So I was like, maybe this is
just me making stuff up.

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And I was like, God, please let
it be just me making stuff up.

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So the hurricane hits it parks
on the North Carolina coast for

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like a week.
We lost power for two weeks.

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And during that time, yeah, it
was crazy.

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And it was 90 some degrees
temperature wise, and it was

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like 100 plus humidity.
It was crazy hot here.

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And that would be on my feet all
day because everything was wet.

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Our ceiling had caved in, by the
way.

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We had, like, stuff just
gathering water.

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Everything was soaked.
There was no way to get anything

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dry.
And I had a toddler who still

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needed to be fed.
It was dark, you know, all the

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things.
I was washing things by hand.

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I don't wash stuff.
I don't like washing dishes.

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But I had to do it because, you
know, electricity.

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And so this whole time I hadn't
felt my baby mood.

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And I thought with my first
pregnancy, I was a runner back

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then, and I would run and the
motion would put her to sleep.

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So I didn't feel her move a
whole lot.

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So that wasn't strange.
I was like, I've been on my feet

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12 hours, like, the baby is
asleep, right?

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And so I was just hoping against
hope.

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But the appointments kept
getting cancelled.

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And when I finally made it to
hospital, she couldn't find a

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heartbeat.
And this was, this was my

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reaction.
I was like, that makes sense to

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me.
And she was not OK.

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And she was like, how are you
OK?

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And how do I tell her?
You know, I heard a voice

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telling me that I wasn't going
to get to keep my son, right?

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And so phone lines were down
because of the hurricane.

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Electricity was barely coming
back online.

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My husband wasn't with me.
I was with my toddler.

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And so I had to scramble to find
my husband somehow.

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And luckily we, we tracked him
down.

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We, because we were inside the
base and we tracked him down.

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He gets to the hospital, I tell
him and then they tell me that I

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have to deliver my baby, which
is awful.

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So I like, I get super sick and
then I'm like, I have to do this

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thing, this really awful thing.
And so I'm volunteering, like I

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said, and I'm so lucky that half
of those people that are

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volunteering with our parents,
so their parents of active duty

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Marines at this time.
And they were like, what can we

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do for you?
We're all over the country,

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Texas, Hawaii, Kentucky,
Montana.

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What can we do for you, Jay?
And I was like, please pray that

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this delivery goes well.
I like, I don't want to be

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traumatized.
I want to be able to continue my

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life after this.
A part of me, I actually didn't

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think I was going to make it out
of the hospital is that I don't

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think I told you that before.
But I told my husband I was

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like, promised that my illness
will be raised in the church.

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And he's like, I promise, you
know.

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So I didn't expect.
I didn't expect to make it out

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of the hospital.
Yeah.

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And so they were praying for me.
And they were like, we're

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praying for you, Jay.
And I went to the hospital and I

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took my phone and I took my
Bible and I opened up the

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Scripture and it was first Peter
3:15 And it was like sanctify

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the Lord your God and be ready
to defend for the reason, the

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hope that is in you with
meekness and in fear.

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And I had never had that verse
before, like I didn't even know

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it existed, but it brought me a
great comfort because I said, if

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anybody knows what it's like to
lose a son by God knows, right?

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And it was, he was such a great
comfort to me.

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And I was in that room and I
felt like I was being hugged the

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entire time.
It was like warm and peaceful.

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And the people that would come
in, the nurses, the, the people

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that were cleaning, they would,
they would be like, how are you

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doing this?
How are you OK?

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And, and I was like, God is
good, Like I was in the middle

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of losing my baby, but I knew
that God was good.

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And so God was merciful.
And my baby came when I was

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sleeping.
So we got to hold him and we got

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to bless him and we got to pray
with for him.

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And so we had we had closure,
which was really nice.

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And so so then I had
preeclampsia.

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So that means very high blood
pressure, which means that you

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can have a stroke.
And so they were like, Jay, you

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have to stay here for another 24
hours just so we can make sure

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that you're good.
So I sent my husband home.

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I was like, OK, go be with our
eldest.

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My mom was taking care of her at
the moment, go be with our

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daughter.
And he's like, OK, Are you sure?

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Let's say yes, I'm fine.
Just go.

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And so I was in the room and I
was kind of with the Lord this

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whole time.
Like I was having like a back

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and forth conversation.
What does life look like now?

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Now that I don't have a son?
What do I tell my daughter?

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You know, how do, how do I
continue?

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You know, And it was just like
this continuous long prayer for

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the 24 hours.
And I was sitting there and

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there was this window facing
this patch of wood, and I felt

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the presence of the Lord with
me.

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Like I said, it was like he was
hugging me, but a cross in that

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wood.
There was a presence.

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There was an evil presence in
that wood.

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And my heart just started a pump
really fast.

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And I know fight or flight.
And that's what what felt like.

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Like I knew that I was going to
have to fight this thing.

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And I knew that I was evil and I
knew that it was everything

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opposite of what I was feeling
in this room.

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So I was in this in between, you
know, state.

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And it was very clear to me that
I was like, wow.

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I was like, God, is is real.
And I was like, but so was the

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00:12:39,800 --> 00:12:41,800
enemy.
And we're in this in this

227
00:12:41,800 --> 00:12:44,040
constant fight, right?
Yeah.

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00:12:44,800 --> 00:12:49,880
So I leave the hospital and all
that peace stays in the hospital

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and I'm not at the hospital and
I am mad.

230
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I am mad, I am sad, I am raging
and like there is no stopping

231
00:12:59,480 --> 00:13:00,920
the rage that I have inside of
me.

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But because God warned me and
because He was with me, I knew

233
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that this loss had to be for a
reason.

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00:13:13,200 --> 00:13:17,200
And so I said, OK, I may not
like God right now.

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He took my baby because he told
me he was.

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He was not going to make it.
I may not like God right now,

237
00:13:22,880 --> 00:13:25,000
but I know that this has to make
sense at some point.

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So I have to.
I have to keep showing up even

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though I don't want to.
So I went to church and I

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00:13:32,640 --> 00:13:37,320
couldn't pray and I couldn't
sing and I would be there and I

241
00:13:37,320 --> 00:13:41,320
would like bomb my fists and
like cross my hands and I just,

242
00:13:41,400 --> 00:13:44,920
I would, I was just there
because I was, I was showing up

243
00:13:45,200 --> 00:13:47,200
right.
My friends told me later that

244
00:13:47,200 --> 00:13:49,560
that was obedience.
That was not, that was not the

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00:13:49,600 --> 00:13:52,600
verbiage that I would have used.
I was just showing up right.

246
00:13:53,120 --> 00:13:58,080
And, and eventually God, God did
what he does and he really

247
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transformed my heart and he just
melted it and made it stronger,

248
00:14:05,120 --> 00:14:08,960
but gentler at the same time.
And, and I became somebody that

249
00:14:08,960 --> 00:14:12,200
he could use.
So I became a better mom, a

250
00:14:12,200 --> 00:14:16,240
better wife, a better daughter,
just like an overall human being

251
00:14:16,240 --> 00:14:19,160
because all because I had lost
my son.

252
00:14:19,320 --> 00:14:24,400
So that's the story.
Wow.

253
00:14:24,840 --> 00:14:30,240
Yeah.
Oh, Jay, I'm so sorry.

254
00:14:33,160 --> 00:14:35,800
I know what it's like I.
Know you'd.

255
00:14:37,840 --> 00:14:43,360
And I know you miss him.
Thank you for sharing.

256
00:14:46,480 --> 00:14:49,560
Thank you.
I mean it.

257
00:14:52,960 --> 00:14:57,280
I don't want us to just skip
over this because he matters.

258
00:14:58,160 --> 00:15:01,920
I know you know that.
What's his name?

259
00:15:02,400 --> 00:15:09,880
His name is Camden.
Handsome little guy, I bet.

260
00:15:10,880 --> 00:15:17,720
He was pretty cute.
Praise God.

261
00:15:19,560 --> 00:15:25,360
Praise God.
Well, you have shared so much.

262
00:15:25,840 --> 00:15:29,160
I want to come come back to a
couple of pieces.

263
00:15:29,520 --> 00:15:34,440
Like I said, there's no no
reason for us to rush, rush

264
00:15:34,440 --> 00:15:43,480
through this.
Tell us a bit more about the

265
00:15:43,480 --> 00:15:53,000
peace that you felt and perhaps
why you think that occurred.

266
00:15:53,960 --> 00:15:58,960
Oh, wow, that's a good question.
Know that, you know that part of

267
00:15:58,960 --> 00:16:02,920
the Bible where it says the
peace that goes beyond all

268
00:16:02,920 --> 00:16:06,720
understanding.
That's what that was because it

269
00:16:06,720 --> 00:16:10,840
made absolutely no sense.
It made absolutely no sense in

270
00:16:10,840 --> 00:16:14,720
that the circumstances was was
tragic.

271
00:16:15,160 --> 00:16:17,000
You know, it was not what I
wanted.

272
00:16:17,000 --> 00:16:21,960
I wanted my baby boy and why it
happened.

273
00:16:22,480 --> 00:16:26,880
I think it was God's mercy, I
think, I think had it not been

274
00:16:26,880 --> 00:16:31,240
peaceful and had it been
traumatic, I don't know that I

275
00:16:31,240 --> 00:16:33,680
could have shown up.
That makes sense.

276
00:16:34,040 --> 00:16:37,520
So I think that if it would have
been like this really over the

277
00:16:37,520 --> 00:16:42,720
top experience of losing him, I,
I don't think that would be here

278
00:16:42,720 --> 00:16:44,760
today.
I think that that was just God's

279
00:16:44,760 --> 00:16:49,200
mercy to make sure that yes to
the loss, I would come back.

280
00:16:50,000 --> 00:16:52,120
And the only way that that would
have happened if there was a

281
00:16:52,120 --> 00:16:54,840
peaceful passing.
And I think that was just part

282
00:16:54,840 --> 00:16:57,080
of that.
And, and I think the other part

283
00:16:57,080 --> 00:17:01,480
too was ministering to the
people that I came across

284
00:17:01,480 --> 00:17:03,840
because there was a lot of
nurses coming back and forth.

285
00:17:04,480 --> 00:17:08,560
And one of them, she was a
believer.

286
00:17:08,560 --> 00:17:09,760
And she's like, can I pray for
you?

287
00:17:10,319 --> 00:17:11,800
I'm like, absolutely, you can
pray for me.

288
00:17:11,800 --> 00:17:13,079
This is the day that I need
prayer.

289
00:17:13,079 --> 00:17:16,800
Absolutely.
And she said something in her

290
00:17:16,800 --> 00:17:20,440
prayer that I'll never forget.
And she was like, be with Jay

291
00:17:20,440 --> 00:17:23,200
and minister to her.
Like she has ministered to me

292
00:17:24,359 --> 00:17:27,040
and I'm like, I'm like in that,
in that bed.

293
00:17:27,040 --> 00:17:30,200
Yeah, I'm like in that bed and
I'm hooked up and, you know,

294
00:17:30,200 --> 00:17:33,880
I'm, I'm about to do this
terrible thing and like, I'm

295
00:17:33,880 --> 00:17:36,160
ministering to her.
So I think that was God's

296
00:17:36,160 --> 00:17:40,000
purpose too, because in that
piece he was showing up in a way

297
00:17:40,000 --> 00:17:43,440
that it wouldn't make any other
sense but that it was Him, if

298
00:17:43,440 --> 00:17:47,320
that makes sense.
Yeah, very much does.

299
00:17:47,480 --> 00:17:53,160
Yeah, I track with you on that.
So from the moment that you're

300
00:17:53,160 --> 00:18:00,600
in the shower and you have the
sense or you hear the voice, get

301
00:18:00,600 --> 00:18:05,320
used to essentially not having
Camden until you're in the

302
00:18:05,320 --> 00:18:09,920
hospital and find out that
Camden doesn't have a heartbeat.

303
00:18:10,680 --> 00:18:14,640
How roughly how long is that
between those two?

304
00:18:16,440 --> 00:18:21,720
I would say about a week because
the storm came and we lost power

305
00:18:21,800 --> 00:18:26,720
and that was that was two weeks.
But halfway through that is when

306
00:18:26,720 --> 00:18:30,600
I was able to to go in.
Yeah, yeah.

307
00:18:30,600 --> 00:18:34,440
Gotcha.
And how far along were you with

308
00:18:34,440 --> 00:18:36,080
him?
That was 27 weeks.

309
00:18:36,840 --> 00:18:38,400
Yeah.
Yeah.

310
00:18:43,120 --> 00:18:50,280
Well, you talked about God being
real and this very clear

311
00:18:50,800 --> 00:18:54,000
understanding that so was the
enemy.

312
00:18:54,840 --> 00:18:57,800
And it sounds like as you're
looking out the window at this

313
00:18:58,320 --> 00:19:01,160
stand of trees, these woods,
right?

314
00:19:02,000 --> 00:19:05,960
Tell us more about that in terms
of how, how, how did you, how

315
00:19:05,960 --> 00:19:10,400
did, how did that become very
evident to you that the enemy is

316
00:19:10,400 --> 00:19:13,520
also real?
It was, it was a feeling, you

317
00:19:13,520 --> 00:19:16,440
know, because the, the contrast
was so huge, right?

318
00:19:16,800 --> 00:19:20,560
The piece that was in there was
so complete and I was not on any

319
00:19:20,560 --> 00:19:24,080
medication whatsoever.
So it was just the fluids they

320
00:19:24,080 --> 00:19:29,640
had me on and that was about it.
I had purposely told them that I

321
00:19:29,640 --> 00:19:31,480
didn't need anything at the
moment.

322
00:19:32,040 --> 00:19:36,240
And so as far as I know, I was
not medicated, but the piece was

323
00:19:36,240 --> 00:19:41,240
complete.
And for it, the juxtaposition

324
00:19:41,240 --> 00:19:47,360
was so jarring that the evil and
that have felt evil before, like

325
00:19:47,360 --> 00:19:51,200
from people.
But to feel like coming from a

326
00:19:51,200 --> 00:19:54,720
wood, you know, I'm like, it's a
piece of wood.

327
00:19:54,760 --> 00:19:57,840
Like there's, there's trees,
there's no evil inherently in

328
00:19:57,840 --> 00:20:03,200
them.
But to feel that opposing force,

329
00:20:03,200 --> 00:20:06,520
the the just, it felt like a
pulsing, you know?

330
00:20:08,000 --> 00:20:11,440
So yeah, it was like that it
had, it had to be something evil

331
00:20:11,440 --> 00:20:14,720
because it was an antithesis to
what I was feeling in that room.

332
00:20:16,360 --> 00:20:20,200
So yeah, I was like, I don't
think I had ever equated like

333
00:20:20,200 --> 00:20:25,480
the evil with the presence.
Like I knew like in theory evil

334
00:20:25,480 --> 00:20:30,120
was out there, but I had never
felt it kind of like so

335
00:20:30,120 --> 00:20:34,280
channelled and it was towards me
and I and I felt like I had to

336
00:20:34,280 --> 00:20:36,640
fight it.
And I was like, well that's

337
00:20:36,800 --> 00:20:39,040
terrible.
That's terrible that I have to

338
00:20:39,040 --> 00:20:42,760
fight this thing.
So yeah, it's yeah.

339
00:20:43,960 --> 00:20:48,240
Yeah, it sounds like instead of
it being out there, it was now

340
00:20:48,240 --> 00:20:51,480
it being evil as you're talking
about, was now present.

341
00:20:51,840 --> 00:20:53,840
Yeah.
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

342
00:20:54,200 --> 00:20:57,840
It wasn't like a an ethereal,
you know, thing.

343
00:20:57,920 --> 00:20:59,880
It was very concentrated.
It was very there.

344
00:21:00,160 --> 00:21:05,280
Yeah, well, I want to come back
to the what you just were

345
00:21:05,280 --> 00:21:07,760
talking about a moment ago.
Like, I'm, I'm going to have to

346
00:21:07,760 --> 00:21:09,640
fight this.
Want to come back to that in a

347
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:13,680
minute.
But you, you talked about

348
00:21:14,280 --> 00:21:23,560
leaving the hospital and all of
the peace stayed there, raging

349
00:21:23,680 --> 00:21:28,960
bald fists.
And yet you still decide to go

350
00:21:28,960 --> 00:21:32,800
to church.
Just take us into that period of

351
00:21:32,800 --> 00:21:35,240
time for you more.
What was it like?

352
00:21:35,880 --> 00:21:38,880
That was rough.
So just a little bit of back

353
00:21:38,880 --> 00:21:44,480
story.
My husband, when he went to and

354
00:21:44,480 --> 00:21:48,480
from Iraq, I had to kind of
close off my feelings.

355
00:21:49,160 --> 00:21:54,280
And what I mean by that is that
in order to not add burden on

356
00:21:54,280 --> 00:21:58,640
him, I had to keep myself in
check even though I was scared

357
00:21:58,640 --> 00:22:00,760
for his life, even though I
didn't want to be alone.

358
00:22:00,760 --> 00:22:03,720
And even, you know, all these
political things were happening,

359
00:22:04,080 --> 00:22:08,480
but I had to be, I had to put my
big girl panties on and he just

360
00:22:08,480 --> 00:22:11,200
butchered up for a period of
like 3 years.

361
00:22:11,640 --> 00:22:17,200
So our MO, his and mine were to
just kind of tap it out.

362
00:22:17,680 --> 00:22:20,200
And anything that we were
feeling that wasn't mission

363
00:22:20,200 --> 00:22:24,200
oriented, that wouldn't make his
life easier, just had to wait.

364
00:22:24,960 --> 00:22:28,680
And so my MO was to suppress for
years, right?

365
00:22:28,760 --> 00:22:31,160
He went to Iraq three times and
once to Afghanistan.

366
00:22:31,920 --> 00:22:36,560
So that is what I'm used to.
So Fast forward to me losing

367
00:22:36,560 --> 00:22:38,560
Cam.
I know two things.

368
00:22:39,160 --> 00:22:43,080
I know my experience with the
Lord was very real.

369
00:22:43,760 --> 00:22:47,920
And I know that I have to
process my grief or it's going

370
00:22:47,920 --> 00:22:51,120
to end my marriage, like
statistically speaking, right?

371
00:22:52,480 --> 00:22:57,240
And so I tell my husband, you
and I cannot do what we've been

372
00:22:57,240 --> 00:23:00,120
doing for years and years.
This is not war time.

373
00:23:00,680 --> 00:23:03,680
This is peacetime.
We have lost something big.

374
00:23:04,000 --> 00:23:06,800
And if we don't face this, we
are going to lose each other.

375
00:23:07,240 --> 00:23:10,400
And we've been together this
November, praise God, we've been

376
00:23:10,400 --> 00:23:13,040
together for 27 years.
I'm not training another one,

377
00:23:13,440 --> 00:23:16,120
right?
So yeah.

378
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,240
Oh, it's like, like we, we have
to do this thing together.

379
00:23:20,520 --> 00:23:22,600
So we're going to be big boys
and girls and we're going to

380
00:23:22,600 --> 00:23:25,240
deal with our grief.
And so we went to counselling

381
00:23:26,160 --> 00:23:29,240
and I had to process all the
things that I didn't want to

382
00:23:29,240 --> 00:23:33,920
process like an adult.
And I didn't want to, but I had

383
00:23:33,920 --> 00:23:37,880
to.
And so part of that was crying

384
00:23:37,880 --> 00:23:41,120
at the drop of a hat when I
needed to because you know, your

385
00:23:41,120 --> 00:23:48,800
heart is broken and you see a
little boy going to Walmart and

386
00:23:48,800 --> 00:23:51,360
like a big military town with
kiddos running around

387
00:23:51,360 --> 00:23:53,480
everywhere.
That is rough.

388
00:23:53,800 --> 00:23:57,480
You probably know that.
So seeing little boys, I would

389
00:23:57,480 --> 00:24:00,680
lose it as a drop of a hat.
But you have to because that's

390
00:24:00,680 --> 00:24:07,600
the grieving process, right?
And so I knew that I had to show

391
00:24:07,600 --> 00:24:09,800
up.
I knew God was going to reveal

392
00:24:09,800 --> 00:24:12,440
to me why all this had to
happen.

393
00:24:12,440 --> 00:24:16,360
If I didn't go to church, if I
didn't talk to him, even though

394
00:24:16,360 --> 00:24:18,320
I was mad at him, I would never
find out.

395
00:24:19,000 --> 00:24:22,960
And all this pain and all this
trauma would be for absolutely

396
00:24:22,960 --> 00:24:24,280
nothing.
It would be wasted.

397
00:24:24,880 --> 00:24:27,120
And I don't like waste, like it
makes me angry.

398
00:24:27,120 --> 00:24:29,680
I don't like it.
So I had to stay faithful and I

399
00:24:29,680 --> 00:24:34,960
had to show up.
And so I was angry at God.

400
00:24:35,040 --> 00:24:37,680
You took my son.
I prayed for this boy for a

401
00:24:37,680 --> 00:24:40,240
month.
I was going to rearrange my

402
00:24:40,240 --> 00:24:44,440
whole life to have him with us.
And you took him from me.

403
00:24:45,840 --> 00:24:48,920
And I'm mad about that.
And I don't like you for it.

404
00:24:49,200 --> 00:24:53,520
But I know that you have a plan.
And I'm just going to sit here

405
00:24:53,720 --> 00:24:56,640
and tell you all about how I'm
feeling and how much I don't

406
00:24:56,640 --> 00:24:58,440
like you, even though I love
you.

407
00:24:59,320 --> 00:25:04,360
And it's just going to be what
it is and so and all that.

408
00:25:04,360 --> 00:25:09,320
And but I think that God met me
in those honest prayers and it

409
00:25:09,320 --> 00:25:13,360
was just like a big tantrum, you
know, like when when your kiddo

410
00:25:13,400 --> 00:25:16,440
is like, I hate you, you know,
but they really love you

411
00:25:16,440 --> 00:25:17,760
because, you know, you're their
parent.

412
00:25:17,760 --> 00:25:20,560
It was like that.
And it was like, God was like,

413
00:25:20,600 --> 00:25:24,440
it's OK, go ahead and have your
feelings and I'll just be here

414
00:25:24,440 --> 00:25:27,840
when you're done.
And he was and it was amazing.

415
00:25:27,840 --> 00:25:32,320
And then I was on fire.
And you know, it was, it's been

416
00:25:32,320 --> 00:25:35,560
awesome.
Well, praise.

417
00:25:35,560 --> 00:25:40,000
God for that, but we have we
have to explore that turn that

418
00:25:40,000 --> 00:25:43,280
you just made in like less than
a sentence.

419
00:25:43,280 --> 00:25:49,000
OK, we have to explore that turn
a little bit more of yes, he of

420
00:25:49,000 --> 00:25:54,440
course was there for you and let
you have your feelings, but how

421
00:25:54,440 --> 00:26:01,560
do you go from that?
The pain, the rage, the I love

422
00:26:01,560 --> 00:26:09,920
you but I don't like you right
now to to being on fire for him.

423
00:26:10,720 --> 00:26:14,600
You know, that can only be a
work of God because in my flesh

424
00:26:14,600 --> 00:26:18,160
I wouldn't have done it, right?
And that's like the work of the

425
00:26:18,160 --> 00:26:19,760
Holy Spirit because the Holy
Spirit is awesome.

426
00:26:20,280 --> 00:26:26,920
And so I feel like because I was
feeling my feelings with God and

427
00:26:26,920 --> 00:26:33,040
because I was completely honest
in where I was in my rage, I am

428
00:26:33,040 --> 00:26:35,240
super mad.
I hate you right now.

429
00:26:35,520 --> 00:26:38,840
I don't want to talk to you, but
I'm praying to you because you

430
00:26:38,840 --> 00:26:41,160
are the only person that's going
to get me through this, right?

431
00:26:41,960 --> 00:26:45,120
And in that process of just
being absolutely real,

432
00:26:45,120 --> 00:26:48,120
absolutely vulnerable,
absolutely 100, like the kids

433
00:26:48,120 --> 00:26:51,080
say, I'm keep it 100, right?
You're going to keep it that

434
00:26:51,080 --> 00:26:54,440
real with the Lord.
That's the only way he can do

435
00:26:54,720 --> 00:26:57,640
the transformation.
If you are not honest with the

436
00:26:57,640 --> 00:26:59,600
Lord, like he can't do a whole
lot with that.

437
00:26:59,600 --> 00:27:03,080
He doesn't want the big names.
He doesn't want like all the

438
00:27:03,080 --> 00:27:05,880
list of all our fathers.
He just wants you to be really

439
00:27:05,880 --> 00:27:07,200
honest.
Like he knows what you're

440
00:27:07,200 --> 00:27:09,280
feeling, but he wants you to be
honest with him.

441
00:27:10,040 --> 00:27:12,000
And I think that that's where
the transformation came.

442
00:27:12,480 --> 00:27:16,200
And because, you know,
thankfully I was in a church, I

443
00:27:16,200 --> 00:27:19,280
think that was the other big
part that I kept going to church

444
00:27:19,320 --> 00:27:25,960
and just I may not have been in
worship mode, but I was having

445
00:27:25,960 --> 00:27:30,000
worshiped washed over me.
No, Yeah.

446
00:27:30,000 --> 00:27:33,720
And I was having the word
preached over me, even though I

447
00:27:33,840 --> 00:27:36,960
was not receiving it, I was
still hearing it.

448
00:27:37,160 --> 00:27:38,880
I was still in the presence of
it.

449
00:27:38,880 --> 00:27:42,120
And I was still being, you know,
cleansed every time I went in

450
00:27:42,120 --> 00:27:44,840
there and washed.
And I'm like hairs in my arms

451
00:27:44,840 --> 00:27:47,720
are standing up right now.
And so like, that's how God did

452
00:27:47,720 --> 00:27:52,680
his work with the honest prayers
and, and, and through his, his,

453
00:27:52,840 --> 00:27:56,680
you know, his daughters and his
sons, you know, worshipping even

454
00:27:56,680 --> 00:27:58,800
though I didn't want to, they
were worshipping and I was there

455
00:27:58,800 --> 00:28:01,520
being washed by it.
So I think that's how he did it.

456
00:28:02,960 --> 00:28:05,960
Yeah.
Praise God, Jay.

457
00:28:06,200 --> 00:28:07,520
Oh, good.
That's good.

458
00:28:07,800 --> 00:28:11,280
Yeah, that is good.
It's God.

459
00:28:11,520 --> 00:28:21,480
Wow, so how does swords up the
the devotional that you wrote,

460
00:28:21,480 --> 00:28:35,920
How does that come to exist?
So I so I, I am lit on fire for

461
00:28:35,920 --> 00:28:42,360
the Lord.
I start worshipping again and I

462
00:28:42,360 --> 00:28:45,240
am leading a group of women in
my home.

463
00:28:45,920 --> 00:28:50,040
And then we move and go back to
California, to the middle of the

464
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:56,360
desert, and I go back to the
church that I first step foot in

465
00:28:56,360 --> 00:29:01,120
as an adult.
And so 20 years later, from the

466
00:29:01,120 --> 00:29:03,640
first time that I went into that
church, I went back to that same

467
00:29:03,640 --> 00:29:07,720
church and I start leading
women's ministry there.

468
00:29:08,400 --> 00:29:11,600
And I tell the pastor, I've
missed you.

469
00:29:11,600 --> 00:29:13,920
I saw you 20 years ago.
He's like, I don't remember you.

470
00:29:13,920 --> 00:29:16,400
I'm like, I do, you're amazing.
I love you.

471
00:29:16,840 --> 00:29:20,520
And so I start serving there and
it goes great.

472
00:29:21,080 --> 00:29:24,480
I do a conference.
I am leading the women.

473
00:29:25,120 --> 00:29:27,840
It's wonderful.
But I know that it's coming time

474
00:29:28,720 --> 00:29:34,520
for us to move again.
And so I was so mad, I didn't

475
00:29:34,520 --> 00:29:38,400
want to leave.
And so I said, OK, Lord, when we

476
00:29:38,400 --> 00:29:40,920
go back, when we go back to
North Carolina, we were coming

477
00:29:40,920 --> 00:29:44,200
here.
My husband's going to leave.

478
00:29:44,640 --> 00:29:46,200
And I knew he was going to leave
right away.

479
00:29:46,280 --> 00:29:48,920
And so I knew that the time time
was ticket.

480
00:29:49,520 --> 00:29:52,880
So I said, I have two kids that
are fairly young.

481
00:29:53,080 --> 00:29:58,200
My husband's going to be gone.
How can I possibly serve you in

482
00:29:58,200 --> 00:30:02,680
the same capacity or close to it
as I'm serving you here?

483
00:30:03,600 --> 00:30:04,720
And he said, you're going to
write.

484
00:30:05,200 --> 00:30:07,680
And I was like, OK, I'm going
to.

485
00:30:07,680 --> 00:30:10,000
I can do that.
I can do that from anywhere with

486
00:30:10,000 --> 00:30:11,960
two kids and a dog.
I can do that.

487
00:30:13,040 --> 00:30:16,360
And so I had been on social
media previously for a couple

488
00:30:16,360 --> 00:30:17,800
years at this point, like four
or five years.

489
00:30:18,200 --> 00:30:20,120
And I was like, I'll do content
writing.

490
00:30:20,360 --> 00:30:23,080
That made sense to me.
I actually had actually talked

491
00:30:23,080 --> 00:30:25,800
to my friends about doing that.
So I was like, this is a perfect

492
00:30:25,800 --> 00:30:28,240
opportunity.
It matches, it goes with my

493
00:30:28,240 --> 00:30:29,720
skills already.
Let's do it.

494
00:30:30,520 --> 00:30:35,080
And so I signed up for a course
about content writing and it's a

495
00:30:35,080 --> 00:30:39,280
six month course, but I only
have three months before my

496
00:30:39,280 --> 00:30:43,520
husband goes in my so we are
crossing the country with two

497
00:30:43,520 --> 00:30:46,280
kids, a dog.
Did I mention we didn't have

498
00:30:46,280 --> 00:30:49,520
anywhere to land just yet?
So we were house hunting while

499
00:30:49,520 --> 00:30:52,360
on the road.
And I had to complete this

500
00:30:52,360 --> 00:30:53,800
before my husband went missing
again.

501
00:30:55,040 --> 00:30:59,840
And so I did a did a six month
course in three while house

502
00:30:59,840 --> 00:31:02,440
hunting.
Oh, and I had gone back to

503
00:31:02,440 --> 00:31:05,560
jujitsu because I wanted to get
my women's empowerment milk

504
00:31:05,560 --> 00:31:07,960
before my coach left.
So I had a whole lot going on.

505
00:31:08,480 --> 00:31:13,280
Can you notice a trend?
Anyway, so I got it done and

506
00:31:13,280 --> 00:31:19,520
then I couldn't get hired.
And yeah, and I was, I was

507
00:31:19,560 --> 00:31:23,400
disappointed and I was kind of
angry and I was like, Lord, you

508
00:31:23,400 --> 00:31:27,120
told me that to write.
Here I am, I want to use my

509
00:31:27,120 --> 00:31:30,360
gifts for you, use my gifts and
nobody will hire me.

510
00:31:30,360 --> 00:31:34,240
And so my coach was like, you
have to give away your services

511
00:31:34,240 --> 00:31:36,280
for free.
I was like, that sounds dumb.

512
00:31:36,280 --> 00:31:38,560
I don't want to do that.
And so I was like, but if I'm

513
00:31:38,560 --> 00:31:41,040
going to do that, I'm going to
do that for somebody who's

514
00:31:41,040 --> 00:31:44,760
building the Kingdom, who is
doing nonprofit, something like

515
00:31:44,760 --> 00:31:46,640
that.
So I go volunteer much

516
00:31:46,960 --> 00:31:51,840
volunteermatch.org and I find
this gentleman, I need

517
00:31:51,880 --> 00:31:53,960
educational articles for my
website.

518
00:31:54,000 --> 00:31:55,800
I was like, oh, I was like, I
can do that.

519
00:31:56,000 --> 00:31:57,280
I can do that.
I'm a Christian.

520
00:31:57,320 --> 00:31:58,560
I've been in ministry for six
years.

521
00:31:58,800 --> 00:32:01,680
Here is my sample.
Can I please volunteer for you?

522
00:32:02,160 --> 00:32:05,840
And he was like, he calls me
within like the hour of me

523
00:32:05,840 --> 00:32:09,880
applying.
And he's like, yes, you can.

524
00:32:10,280 --> 00:32:12,080
And I don't know this guy from
Adam, right?

525
00:32:12,080 --> 00:32:16,680
So he has this, this
organization and it's very

526
00:32:16,680 --> 00:32:20,280
buttoned up and he's like, you
can write for this.

527
00:32:20,520 --> 00:32:24,160
There's this other thing that I
do that is called Christian Hip

528
00:32:24,160 --> 00:32:26,000
hop.
Would you like to write for

529
00:32:26,000 --> 00:32:29,680
that?
And turns out he is the CEO of

530
00:32:29,680 --> 00:32:32,720
Holy Culture Radio.
And I start volunteering for

531
00:32:32,720 --> 00:32:34,360
him.
Didn't know that was the thing.

532
00:32:34,360 --> 00:32:36,480
Didn't know that there were
Christians rapping out there for

533
00:32:36,480 --> 00:32:38,160
Jesus.
But it's a huge thing.

534
00:32:38,720 --> 00:32:40,360
It's a huge thing.
It's, it's crazy.

535
00:32:40,680 --> 00:32:44,400
So I start volunteering for him.
I write a gigantic piece called

536
00:32:44,400 --> 00:32:47,640
Women in CHH 5000 words as a
volunteer.

537
00:32:48,080 --> 00:32:54,840
I do an interview with a local
artist that to this day is still

538
00:32:54,840 --> 00:32:57,120
getting views.
While I was still a volunteer

539
00:32:57,600 --> 00:33:00,200
and but I still couldn't get
hired.

540
00:33:00,440 --> 00:33:03,880
I was looking for a job for like
12 hours a day.

541
00:33:04,040 --> 00:33:07,320
Nothing fine.
I was stealing my word though

542
00:33:07,520 --> 00:33:10,080
because I knew that guy was
moving and I knew that I had to

543
00:33:10,080 --> 00:33:11,960
be ready.
I just didn't know what he was

544
00:33:11,960 --> 00:33:18,240
doing.
So I'm in Ephesians and I go to

545
00:33:18,240 --> 00:33:20,760
the armor of God and I was like,
I love the armor of God.

546
00:33:20,760 --> 00:33:23,200
I love weapons.
So I go there.

547
00:33:23,200 --> 00:33:26,920
I do, I do.
If if you read the book, there's

548
00:33:26,920 --> 00:33:29,640
like Mark of arts, there's
action stuff and then there's

549
00:33:29,640 --> 00:33:32,640
Bible stuff.
So check out the book Anyway, so

550
00:33:32,640 --> 00:33:35,360
I go to the part of the part
where it says we do not fight

551
00:33:35,360 --> 00:33:37,800
against Russian Bible, we fight
against powers.

552
00:33:38,320 --> 00:33:39,640
So I was like, let's stop at
powers.

553
00:33:39,640 --> 00:33:41,240
What, what does that actually
mean?

554
00:33:41,240 --> 00:33:44,400
What did the Greek mean?
What did they mean to say by

555
00:33:44,400 --> 00:33:46,480
that?
So I look at my blue letter

556
00:33:46,480 --> 00:33:49,960
Bible app and it says exosia.
Exosia.

557
00:33:49,960 --> 00:33:52,480
It's a Greek word.
And then it has like, you know

558
00:33:52,480 --> 00:33:55,840
what you would expect?
Principalities, spiritual

559
00:33:55,840 --> 00:33:59,000
forces, something, something
along those lines.

560
00:33:59,000 --> 00:34:03,160
But then down towards the bottom
it says power of choice.

561
00:34:04,040 --> 00:34:07,400
And I was like, we fight, I
guess power of choice.

562
00:34:08,239 --> 00:34:10,800
And I'm thinking about like all
the choices that I've made-up

563
00:34:10,800 --> 00:34:16,280
until this moment. 40 some when
this happens and I was like I

564
00:34:16,280 --> 00:34:20,520
have made some serious decisions
in my life that were not great

565
00:34:21,040 --> 00:34:23,840
and I knew that they were wrong,
but I still didn't anyway.

566
00:34:24,400 --> 00:34:30,320
And I was like, how often are we
fighting our fleshly desires and

567
00:34:30,320 --> 00:34:33,639
how is the enemy using that
against us daily.

568
00:34:34,600 --> 00:34:37,080
So I called my mom.
She's been a Christian since

569
00:34:37,080 --> 00:34:39,080
forever.
Hey mom, did you know that was

570
00:34:39,080 --> 00:34:40,760
there?
She's like I had no idea.

571
00:34:40,840 --> 00:34:43,920
I didn't even know what So she
was like, that would be an

572
00:34:43,920 --> 00:34:47,560
amazing Bible study.
And my heart like leaps out of

573
00:34:47,560 --> 00:34:50,920
my chest and it just starts
hammering like it does when the

574
00:34:50,920 --> 00:34:55,000
Holy Spirit wants me to move.
And I was like, no, no thank

575
00:34:55,000 --> 00:34:59,760
you.
No, thank you.

576
00:35:00,320 --> 00:35:02,240
I don't, I don't use Bible
studies usually.

577
00:35:02,240 --> 00:35:03,840
It's like me, the Bible and the
Holy Spirit.

578
00:35:03,840 --> 00:35:04,960
That's how I do my Bible
studies.

579
00:35:06,720 --> 00:35:09,720
And so I was like, OK, I was
like, let's regroup.

580
00:35:10,000 --> 00:35:14,640
So I asked my, my boss, the guy
who will become my boss trigger.

581
00:35:14,640 --> 00:35:17,280
So I said, pray for me.
I think the Lord wants me to

582
00:35:17,280 --> 00:35:18,680
write this.
I don't want to write this.

583
00:35:18,960 --> 00:35:22,200
I text my friends, please help
me for discernment.

584
00:35:22,200 --> 00:35:23,920
I think the Lord wants me.
I do not want to write this.

585
00:35:23,920 --> 00:35:26,800
Please pray for me.
So everybody starts praying and

586
00:35:26,800 --> 00:35:30,720
a couple days go by and I sit
down with a piece of paper, a

587
00:35:30,720 --> 00:35:34,480
pen, my Bible.
And I said, OK, Holy Spirit, I

588
00:35:34,480 --> 00:35:39,440
am going to empty myself and
unless you tell me what to

589
00:35:39,440 --> 00:35:41,480
write, I am not writing this
book.

590
00:35:41,840 --> 00:35:44,720
I'm not doing it.
And I was like, here we go.

591
00:35:44,720 --> 00:35:49,040
And so I just like sat down with
my pen and in 15 minutes I had

592
00:35:49,040 --> 00:35:50,960
an 8 week Bible study on the
armor of God.

593
00:35:52,000 --> 00:35:56,920
And I felt the Holy Spirit laugh
at me, and I wanted to like, you

594
00:35:56,920 --> 00:36:01,440
know, drop out of my chair.
Laugh at you?

595
00:36:01,440 --> 00:36:07,720
How so?
I felt joy when my when my flesh

596
00:36:07,720 --> 00:36:12,720
felt panic, like in my, in my
flesh, I'm like, I don't want to

597
00:36:12,720 --> 00:36:16,200
do this.
But in my insides I have felt

598
00:36:16,200 --> 00:36:20,760
joy like you do when you laugh
at someone who has egg on their

599
00:36:20,760 --> 00:36:25,200
face, like ha, ha, ha, ha.
I told you and it was the most

600
00:36:25,200 --> 00:36:26,920
hilarious thing that's ever
happened to me.

601
00:36:28,560 --> 00:36:32,560
Wow.
So that's how Swords Up came

602
00:36:32,560 --> 00:36:37,000
about.
Yeah, well let's stay here.

603
00:36:37,000 --> 00:36:40,280
So it's an 8 week Bible study.
Tell us a little bit more about

604
00:36:40,280 --> 00:36:44,400
it.
Ephesians 6 has what Bible

605
00:36:44,400 --> 00:36:46,480
scholars have the blah blah
effect?

606
00:36:46,600 --> 00:36:49,880
We've heard it so much growing
up at church, like, yeah, yeah,

607
00:36:49,880 --> 00:36:52,600
we fight against powers and the
forces and blah, blah, blah.

608
00:36:52,600 --> 00:36:55,160
And so we don't pay attention to
any ghosts right over our heads,

609
00:36:55,160 --> 00:37:00,680
right?
But the reality is, is that a

610
00:37:00,680 --> 00:37:05,240
lot of us just think as the
armor of God, as all defensive,

611
00:37:05,400 --> 00:37:09,880
you know, it's meant to protect
and the sword is the offensive

612
00:37:09,880 --> 00:37:12,080
thing, right?
It's the thing that you do to

613
00:37:12,080 --> 00:37:16,720
chop down the enemy.
While they that is true, other

614
00:37:16,720 --> 00:37:22,840
pieces of armor can also be
weaponized against Satan so that

615
00:37:22,840 --> 00:37:25,360
you can win the battles that
you're facing every day.

616
00:37:26,400 --> 00:37:27,960
And so that's, that's the first
thing.

617
00:37:28,520 --> 00:37:32,920
And then the second thing is
that it's very practical because

618
00:37:32,920 --> 00:37:37,120
I feel like we get caught up a
lot on Christianese like

619
00:37:37,160 --> 00:37:40,520
righteousness and sanctification
and justification and we, you

620
00:37:40,520 --> 00:37:43,280
know, say all the time.
But one, we don't always know

621
00:37:43,280 --> 00:37:46,200
what they mean.
Two, we don't know how to apply

622
00:37:46,200 --> 00:37:48,600
it.
And three, we don't know that

623
00:37:48,600 --> 00:37:53,160
when we don't apply it, what
happens to us in our faith walk,

624
00:37:53,360 --> 00:37:57,120
right?
How can righteousness be

625
00:37:57,120 --> 00:38:00,600
weaponized Canon?
Like what do you mean to tell me

626
00:38:00,840 --> 00:38:03,720
that if I say no to my flesh and
God's going to start doing

627
00:38:03,720 --> 00:38:06,960
something in my life that's
going to keep Satan from messing

628
00:38:06,960 --> 00:38:10,480
with me on a daily basis?
We don't talk about that enough,

629
00:38:10,600 --> 00:38:14,400
I don't think.
And so it's very practical usage

630
00:38:14,880 --> 00:38:22,080
and it also it's very hands on.
So I, I am not passive.

631
00:38:22,520 --> 00:38:25,760
I want to give you something,
but I also want you to do the

632
00:38:25,760 --> 00:38:29,400
work to get the word in you.
So hopefully at the end of the

633
00:38:29,400 --> 00:38:34,720
book you will have tools, you
will have weapons, and you will

634
00:38:34,720 --> 00:38:37,280
have a better appreciation for
the word of God because it's so

635
00:38:37,280 --> 00:38:40,640
amazing, it's so good.
Yeah.

636
00:38:40,800 --> 00:38:44,320
Wow, that's exciting.
It is exciting.

637
00:38:46,040 --> 00:38:49,040
Well, I've got a handful more
questions for you because you

638
00:38:49,040 --> 00:38:56,200
mentioned two kids and it sounds
like someone came after Cam.

639
00:38:56,360 --> 00:38:57,640
Is that right?
That's right.

640
00:38:58,880 --> 00:39:04,640
Tell us about that.
So her name is Kaylin.

641
00:39:05,280 --> 00:39:09,440
She is our COVID baby and like
literally COVID.

642
00:39:09,440 --> 00:39:11,560
I got COVID when I had when I
was pregnant with her.

643
00:39:11,840 --> 00:39:15,160
So if anybody has a COVID baby,
like, you know, they are like

644
00:39:15,360 --> 00:39:17,040
fiery.
They're like tanks.

645
00:39:17,040 --> 00:39:20,600
They're like, they're like
little beasts or she's amazing,

646
00:39:20,600 --> 00:39:25,120
though.
So that was, you know, that was

647
00:39:25,120 --> 00:39:28,400
very interesting because we had
not decided, we couldn't decide

648
00:39:28,400 --> 00:39:31,720
if we wanted to have kids after
Cam because it was so painful,

649
00:39:31,840 --> 00:39:32,760
you know?
Yeah.

650
00:39:32,760 --> 00:39:35,800
And we were getting older.
I was 30.

651
00:39:36,720 --> 00:39:39,320
I don't remember how it was
303536 somewhere on there.

652
00:39:39,520 --> 00:39:41,800
Yeah, yeah.
And so, you know, you get older

653
00:39:41,800 --> 00:39:46,200
and then the higher the the risk
goes up that you'll have birth

654
00:39:46,200 --> 00:39:49,880
defects and all that stuff.
And we didn't know, you know, do

655
00:39:49,880 --> 00:39:51,560
we do we really want to go
through that?

656
00:39:51,720 --> 00:39:56,120
And so I just kind of left it up
to chance.

657
00:39:56,160 --> 00:39:59,200
And I was like, God, if if it's
your will that we have another

658
00:39:59,200 --> 00:40:02,440
baby, like it'll happen.
I didn't think it was going to

659
00:40:02,440 --> 00:40:07,840
happen but but it did it.
And, yeah, I needed a mental

660
00:40:07,840 --> 00:40:10,280
health day that day when I found
out that I was pregnant because

661
00:40:10,280 --> 00:40:14,120
that it was just such a shocker.
And I was getting ready to to

662
00:40:14,120 --> 00:40:18,760
test for my jujitsu belt and I
didn't go to the gym that day.

663
00:40:18,840 --> 00:40:21,880
And then, you know, I had to
explain later why I didn't go.

664
00:40:22,040 --> 00:40:23,680
And I was like, hey, I'm
pregnant.

665
00:40:23,680 --> 00:40:25,960
If I lose this kid, I'm going
to, I'm going to lose it.

666
00:40:25,960 --> 00:40:28,040
So she's like, you're good.
You're fine.

667
00:40:29,320 --> 00:40:30,280
Yeah.
Yeah.

668
00:40:31,960 --> 00:40:34,640
Wow.
Yeah, that's great though.

669
00:40:34,640 --> 00:40:36,560
Congratulations.
Thank you.

670
00:40:37,200 --> 00:40:38,600
Truly.
Yeah.

671
00:40:38,600 --> 00:40:44,880
That's so wonderful.
Certainly without getting into

672
00:40:44,880 --> 00:40:51,120
the weeds and the details of it,
I think it'd be wonderful for us

673
00:40:51,120 --> 00:40:56,200
to hear about how helpful
counseling was for you guys as a

674
00:40:56,200 --> 00:40:58,160
couple.
Yeah, sure about that.

675
00:40:58,600 --> 00:41:03,720
Yeah, sure.
So I will tell you that my

676
00:41:03,720 --> 00:41:07,040
husband, well, we already talked
about the fact that we were big

677
00:41:07,040 --> 00:41:09,200
suppressors.
So we were not we were not into

678
00:41:09,200 --> 00:41:10,640
our feelings.
And that was for a very

679
00:41:10,640 --> 00:41:13,120
practical reason, right.
He kept going off to war.

680
00:41:13,120 --> 00:41:16,160
He was, you know, people are
shooting at him to kill him.

681
00:41:16,160 --> 00:41:18,320
So, you know, it was it was for
a reason.

682
00:41:20,040 --> 00:41:25,400
But the part where it was
helpful was because it was a

683
00:41:25,400 --> 00:41:29,200
third party.
So it wasn't anybody from my

684
00:41:29,200 --> 00:41:30,840
side.
It wasn't anybody from his side.

685
00:41:30,840 --> 00:41:33,480
It was somebody who barely knew
the two of us.

686
00:41:33,840 --> 00:41:36,160
And she was just there to give
us tools.

687
00:41:36,640 --> 00:41:42,760
And so it was very helpful
because she would say, Jay, what

688
00:41:42,760 --> 00:41:47,680
do you think about Matt's
reaction to such and such?

689
00:41:47,680 --> 00:41:51,440
It would be like a scenario.
And I would be like, oh, I think

690
00:41:51,440 --> 00:41:55,960
that Matt's not processing or
he's not sharing his feelings or

691
00:41:55,960 --> 00:41:57,720
whatever.
And she would be the

692
00:41:57,720 --> 00:42:02,000
intermediary between her and
between him and I.

693
00:42:02,480 --> 00:42:05,400
And it was very helpful because
it kept the lines of

694
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:09,160
communication open so that we
didn't get into our feelings

695
00:42:09,160 --> 00:42:12,520
about each other.
So we were able to stay neutral

696
00:42:12,520 --> 00:42:15,640
and have a productive
conversation about our grief.

697
00:42:15,840 --> 00:42:20,480
Sounds very clinical, but you
have to get to the root of your

698
00:42:20,480 --> 00:42:23,600
grief or you have to feel the
grief in order to get past it,

699
00:42:23,600 --> 00:42:26,480
or to heal, not get past it, but
to heal through it.

700
00:42:28,720 --> 00:42:31,560
Well said.
Yeah, my wife and I had a very

701
00:42:31,560 --> 00:42:38,560
similar experience with that in
terms of we were purposeful in

702
00:42:38,800 --> 00:42:43,440
letting grief be individual for
each of us and letting the other

703
00:42:43,440 --> 00:42:46,240
person grieve so that there
could be healing.

704
00:42:47,400 --> 00:42:50,720
So yeah, really neat point.
Yeah.

705
00:42:50,720 --> 00:42:56,360
OK, OK.
So you alluded to Holy Culture

706
00:42:56,360 --> 00:43:02,520
Radio and and then ending up it
sounds like working there, but I

707
00:43:02,520 --> 00:43:04,440
don't think we've gotten that
far.

708
00:43:04,440 --> 00:43:10,040
So tell us about that.
So, so I'm volunteering for Holy

709
00:43:10,040 --> 00:43:13,680
Culture Radio and, and I'm
writing, I'm writing faith

710
00:43:13,680 --> 00:43:16,240
articles.
So I'm writing, I think I wrote

711
00:43:16,840 --> 00:43:21,400
an article on the difference
between calling on vocation and

712
00:43:21,400 --> 00:43:25,760
what does faith mean?
And you know, Christian topics

713
00:43:25,760 --> 00:43:27,840
that believers would be
interested in.

714
00:43:27,840 --> 00:43:31,520
So that's what I started doing.
And then special projects like

715
00:43:31,520 --> 00:43:34,600
the women in CHH, which was a
huge piece.

716
00:43:35,800 --> 00:43:41,640
And then just phone, phone
interviews with artists, very

717
00:43:41,640 --> 00:43:46,680
rarely as a volunteer.
And so after a while, when I

718
00:43:46,680 --> 00:43:51,520
still couldn't get hired and
after I wrote Swords up, Swords

719
00:43:51,520 --> 00:43:53,080
Up just kind of stayed in my
computer.

720
00:43:53,640 --> 00:43:56,520
I didn't want to deal with it
just then.

721
00:43:56,520 --> 00:44:00,200
I wasn't ready for it.
And so I was like, well, what do

722
00:44:00,200 --> 00:44:02,720
I do now?
My husband, we, at the time, my

723
00:44:02,720 --> 00:44:04,400
husband was going to get out of
the Marine Corps.

724
00:44:04,880 --> 00:44:07,440
And I was like, I need a job.
Like we just bought this house.

725
00:44:07,440 --> 00:44:11,280
I need a job.
And, and I was like, if I could

726
00:44:11,280 --> 00:44:13,920
just get enough money for
groceries, that's when groceries

727
00:44:13,920 --> 00:44:19,680
were like really high.
And I told my boss, I said, you

728
00:44:19,680 --> 00:44:23,720
know, do you know anyone who
needs admin experience?

729
00:44:23,720 --> 00:44:26,200
And I was like, not so much a
writer, but maybe an admin.

730
00:44:26,440 --> 00:44:28,920
I was like, look, I've done
project management, I've done

731
00:44:28,920 --> 00:44:30,840
social media.
I have done, I have been an

732
00:44:30,840 --> 00:44:32,360
executive assistant for like
ever.

733
00:44:32,400 --> 00:44:37,320
Like somebody could use me and
he was like, you know, how much,

734
00:44:37,560 --> 00:44:39,360
how much are you talking here?
And I was like, I don't need a

735
00:44:39,360 --> 00:44:40,840
whole lot.
I was like, if I could just work

736
00:44:40,840 --> 00:44:43,640
part time.
Like my, my toddler was still at

737
00:44:43,640 --> 00:44:45,120
home, so she wasn't going to
school.

738
00:44:45,120 --> 00:44:47,080
I couldn't work like a full time
hours.

739
00:44:47,840 --> 00:44:49,600
And so he was like, you can do
that for us.

740
00:44:50,120 --> 00:44:54,640
And I was like, oh, OK, I I'll
just work for homiculture then.

741
00:44:55,440 --> 00:45:00,360
And I started working for
homiculture and then one of our

742
00:45:00,360 --> 00:45:05,000
team mates had to step outside
of her role And so she went on

743
00:45:05,000 --> 00:45:08,280
to do something else and I
stepped into her role.

744
00:45:08,280 --> 00:45:11,520
So I took over social media for
Holy culture.

745
00:45:11,520 --> 00:45:15,400
And then we had some gaps in
content for a little while as we

746
00:45:15,400 --> 00:45:18,560
were making some internal
changes and, and I got to be on

747
00:45:18,560 --> 00:45:21,760
camera, which is how I, I feel
pretty comfortable in front of

748
00:45:21,760 --> 00:45:23,040
the camera.
And so if you go to my

749
00:45:23,040 --> 00:45:26,400
Instagram, you'll see have, I
have really cool conversations

750
00:45:26,400 --> 00:45:29,480
with a lot of artists.
Their testimonies are amazing.

751
00:45:30,120 --> 00:45:33,200
So I got to do that for a little
while and I just kind of, I can

752
00:45:33,200 --> 00:45:37,800
go behind the scenes again as we
are having our content machine

753
00:45:37,800 --> 00:45:40,320
up and running.
And so I'm writing again for all

754
00:45:40,320 --> 00:45:42,360
the culture and just doing a
whole lot of stuff in the back

755
00:45:42,360 --> 00:45:47,400
end.
Wow, yeah, that's so cool, Jay

756
00:45:47,400 --> 00:45:48,560
it.
Is really cool.

757
00:45:49,920 --> 00:45:53,840
It's really cool.
Wow.

758
00:45:54,600 --> 00:46:00,440
Well, we land the plane here on
when you look with two questions

759
00:46:01,160 --> 00:46:06,640
and the first of which is, was
it coincidence or God?

760
00:46:06,640 --> 00:46:10,280
And so when we're thinking about
that, you know, this is the

761
00:46:10,280 --> 00:46:16,320
interaction in the shower, this
is even meeting connecting with

762
00:46:16,320 --> 00:46:20,360
the CEO of holy culture.
I mean, like there's a lot of

763
00:46:20,360 --> 00:46:24,160
different ways that you could
answer that question.

764
00:46:24,160 --> 00:46:28,160
So I'll, I'll open it to you.
Everything you've kind of

765
00:46:28,160 --> 00:46:31,600
described, was it coincidence or
God, Jay?

766
00:46:32,120 --> 00:46:33,880
Absolutely not.
It's not a coincidence.

767
00:46:33,880 --> 00:46:35,160
It was.
It was totally God.

768
00:46:35,160 --> 00:46:39,120
Because the part that I didn't
tell you was that as I was

769
00:46:39,120 --> 00:46:43,240
looking for a job, I asked.
This was years before because I

770
00:46:43,240 --> 00:46:44,440
knew that my husband was getting
out.

771
00:46:44,560 --> 00:46:48,160
So I said, Lord, I want a job
where I can stay home.

772
00:46:48,800 --> 00:46:52,760
I want a job that I won't hate
and I want a job that will allow

773
00:46:52,760 --> 00:46:57,600
me to take care of my kids make
I work 40 hours from home.

774
00:46:58,600 --> 00:47:01,480
My kids have never seen the
inside of a daycare, and I

775
00:47:01,520 --> 00:47:05,720
absolutely love my job.
So nothing about my life has

776
00:47:06,280 --> 00:47:09,640
coincidence anywhere in there.
God has been there the whole

777
00:47:09,640 --> 00:47:10,000
time.
Oh.

778
00:47:11,880 --> 00:47:14,880
Praise God, that's so good.
He's so good.

779
00:47:15,560 --> 00:47:20,320
Yeah.
Well, Jay, the final question

780
00:47:20,320 --> 00:47:25,640
here is how has your life
changed as a result of

781
00:47:26,120 --> 00:47:31,280
everything that you've shared?
I found my purpose.

782
00:47:32,920 --> 00:47:35,720
It was as you want to cry.
Go right ahead.

783
00:47:36,040 --> 00:47:42,320
We do my, My biggest fear in
life was to have a life without

784
00:47:42,320 --> 00:47:45,760
purpose.
And whenever I had Ariel, I

785
00:47:45,760 --> 00:47:49,400
prayed for God to reveal his
purpose in my life.

786
00:47:50,360 --> 00:47:56,280
And when I was in ministry in
California, I was doing women's

787
00:47:56,280 --> 00:47:59,240
events and I was so happy, so
full of joy.

788
00:47:59,640 --> 00:48:03,800
I wasn't getting paid a dime,
but I was so full of joy.

789
00:48:04,440 --> 00:48:07,440
And I told my husband, I said,
you know, I like, I love

790
00:48:07,440 --> 00:48:08,840
crafting.
I was doing some of them with my

791
00:48:08,840 --> 00:48:10,200
hands.
I was like, I love crafting.

792
00:48:10,200 --> 00:48:11,600
I'm like, I think this is my
jam.

793
00:48:12,240 --> 00:48:16,400
And my husband that is no babe,
He's like, Jesus is your jam.

794
00:48:17,240 --> 00:48:23,280
And I was like, Oh my gosh,
Jesus is my jam and ever since.

795
00:48:23,280 --> 00:48:27,320
And I was like, the Lord Jesus,
Jesus is my purpose.

796
00:48:27,560 --> 00:48:30,320
So what?
Whatever, whatever he wants me

797
00:48:30,320 --> 00:48:34,360
to do, I am down.
If I have to repeat the story a

798
00:48:34,360 --> 00:48:38,040
million times, I will do it
because that's what He wants me

799
00:48:38,040 --> 00:48:40,880
to do when his adventures are
way better than anything that I

800
00:48:40,880 --> 00:48:44,600
could think of.
Wow.

801
00:48:46,360 --> 00:48:51,160
Jesus is my jam.
Well said, Matt.

802
00:48:51,520 --> 00:48:55,280
Well said.
That is good.

803
00:48:56,160 --> 00:49:00,480
Wow, Jay, this has been really,
really fun.

804
00:49:00,600 --> 00:49:04,680
Thank you so much for dumping
your heart out.

805
00:49:04,680 --> 00:49:07,320
Truly.
I mean, we're talking about the

806
00:49:07,320 --> 00:49:13,320
pain of Cam and the joy of
serving the King and everything

807
00:49:13,320 --> 00:49:14,640
in between.
I mean that.

808
00:49:14,640 --> 00:49:16,800
Thank you.
Thank you, Brad.

809
00:49:17,440 --> 00:49:21,880
Yeah, absolutely.
Like how there's there's so much

810
00:49:21,880 --> 00:49:23,680
here.
I mean, like how do people

811
00:49:24,080 --> 00:49:28,080
follow you on Instagram or learn
more about Swords Up?

812
00:49:28,080 --> 00:49:31,200
Of course, we're going to put
some links in for everybody, but

813
00:49:31,200 --> 00:49:34,600
tell us how they can,
immediately after hearing this,

814
00:49:35,480 --> 00:49:37,920
start paying more attention to
you and everything that's

815
00:49:37,920 --> 00:49:41,080
happening.
So I have a thriving little

816
00:49:41,080 --> 00:49:44,680
community on threads and
whenever I find something really

817
00:49:44,680 --> 00:49:47,480
cool in the Bible, I tell all my
friends.

818
00:49:48,320 --> 00:49:51,840
And so I have a presence on
Instagram, but a lot of it is

819
00:49:51,840 --> 00:49:54,360
just work related, very, very
little stuff.

820
00:49:54,360 --> 00:49:58,360
But my home is on threads.
So you will see my journey

821
00:49:58,360 --> 00:50:00,840
through exodus that have been on
throughout the summer.

822
00:50:00,840 --> 00:50:03,760
Jeremiah, Isaiah, you could just
scroll through and get all kinds

823
00:50:03,760 --> 00:50:06,840
of Nuggets said the Lord
downloads on me and I download

824
00:50:06,840 --> 00:50:09,280
to my friends and, and it's
awesome.

825
00:50:09,280 --> 00:50:14,000
My website isjpharrington.com, I
have something really cool

826
00:50:14,000 --> 00:50:15,960
there.
It's called the Spiritual

827
00:50:15,960 --> 00:50:21,240
Warfare Emergency Toolkit.
So that is a downloadable JPEG.

828
00:50:22,360 --> 00:50:27,280
So you can just have it on your
phone and it's like just common

829
00:50:28,200 --> 00:50:30,640
things about warfare that you
would experience, like, for

830
00:50:30,640 --> 00:50:35,600
example, anxiety or depression,
or maybe you don't feel loved or

831
00:50:35,600 --> 00:50:43,000
maybe you're just full of fear.
And it's scriptures that you can

832
00:50:43,000 --> 00:50:48,040
say out loud or pray them out
and also a prayer for me to you.

833
00:50:48,120 --> 00:50:52,960
So if you download it, you will
get that and you will have that.

834
00:50:52,960 --> 00:50:55,480
And whenever you feel any of
those feelings is right there on

835
00:50:55,480 --> 00:50:57,800
your phone, you can speak faith
into yourself.

836
00:50:57,800 --> 00:50:59,840
And I'll be in prayer right
there with you.

837
00:51:00,760 --> 00:51:02,400
And that subscribes you to my
newsletter.

838
00:51:02,960 --> 00:51:07,400
And so the book is out on
Amazon, Walmart, Barnes and

839
00:51:07,400 --> 00:51:10,480
Nobles.
And then bulk for for the book

840
00:51:10,480 --> 00:51:12,960
is Redemption Press.
So that's it.

841
00:51:14,440 --> 00:51:18,560
Wow mobile make sure to link to
all of that stuff, but man, it's

842
00:51:18,560 --> 00:51:20,440
great to hear about it.
Yeah.

843
00:51:22,120 --> 00:51:24,040
Thank you.
It's been a pleasure, truly.

844
00:51:24,320 --> 00:51:28,320
Thank you a bunch.
Congrats on rounding out the

845
00:51:28,320 --> 00:51:34,080
family with a living child and
for you and Matt doing the hard

846
00:51:34,080 --> 00:51:38,840
work and for you to be submitted
to the king.

847
00:51:39,440 --> 00:51:44,440
None of that stuff comes easy.
And it's by God's grace that it

848
00:51:44,440 --> 00:51:47,280
all has worked the way it has.
And I know you, I know you know

849
00:51:47,280 --> 00:51:48,800
that I'm not reaching anybody
here.

850
00:51:48,840 --> 00:51:52,320
So, oh, it's, it's been
wonderful.

851
00:51:52,760 --> 00:51:54,520
Thanks a bunch for being on the
show, Jay.

852
00:51:54,880 --> 00:52:02,440
My pleasure.
Was it coincidence or God?

853
00:52:02,960 --> 00:52:07,720
You decide for yourself, but I
believe you just heard a story

854
00:52:07,720 --> 00:52:11,680
for His glory.
When You Look is powered by

855
00:52:11,680 --> 00:52:15,200
stories just like this and yours
could be next.

856
00:52:15,600 --> 00:52:19,800
Go to whenyoulook.com/be a guest
or use the link in the

857
00:52:19,800 --> 00:52:23,800
description below.
Drop us a comment and share this

858
00:52:23,800 --> 00:52:25,880
episode with somebody that needs
it.

859
00:52:26,480 --> 00:52:30,680
Until next time, thanks a bunch
for listening and watching, and

860
00:52:30,680 --> 00:52:31,520
God bless.