Why Does the West Hate Obedience? | Carey & Mick | 017

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He he gives us the means as well
as the instruction.

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So our excuses don't really
matter when it comes down to am

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I able to do this or not?
You know, this sounds risky.

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Whatever God's going, hey,
that's not your problem.

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You just step in and obey.
I have all the resource you

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need.
Welcome to When You Look, where

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ordinary people share their
extraordinary experiences and

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you get to decide, was it
coincidence or God?

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Carrie, welcome to When You
Look.

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Excited to have you here.
Yeah, it's so good to be here,

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Nick.
Yeah.

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Well, we've had you on as a
guest in Episode 10 and we are

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super excited to have you back
and in this case in a bit more

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of a conversational and teaching
type of style as opposed to you

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sharing your first hand account
of an amazing story.

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So before we jump into all of
that, let's do a little bit of

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background on you.
And again, this will flow a

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little bit different,
differently than it has in prior

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episodes with you, but you've
got more than two decades of

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experience in ministry.
Tell us a little bit about all

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of that.
Yeah, well, I am a redneck kid

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from Texas who am as surprised
as anybody that have wound up in

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a pastoral role.
I did not come from a family

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that was particularly oriented
toward faith.

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Well, I I guess I should back up
a little bit.

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I have a mother who, you know,
was a, a God fearing woman, took

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me to Sunday school, made sure I
was there and that began my

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relationship with Christ.
Once I was, I mean, Fast forward

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a lot here.
Once I was out of high school, I

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was going to college for a music
slash business degree and a

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friend invited me to come visit
the school where she worked in

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the administration.
And it was a Christian School in

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Colorado.
And I, I went up and for the

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first time, sat in a biblical
studies class and my mind was

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just blown.
It was like what I can sit and

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study this stuff.
This, this is amazing.

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And it was like God was starting
to draw out of me this interest

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in the word of God that had kind
of been there before.

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But but seeing just how cool it
was to really just spend a lot

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of time understanding the
Scripture, kind of let me on a

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path that many years later got
me into youth ministry, then

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associate pastor, then lead
pastor.

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And, and here I am, you know, I
don't know how many years later,

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30, six years later, lead pastor
in a fairly sizable church in a

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place I never thought I'd live,
but all of it because God has

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just directed and called me and,
and placed me into his service.

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And there was a like a
eight-year gap in there where I

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wasn't serving in ministry.
I thought the calling was gone,

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but I should have known better
because even during that time,

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he had me starting a podcast a
day, a daily devotional, kind of

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a podcast that I was teaching
people every single day.

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And it's he's really blessed
that and it's grown a lot and,

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and I still publish it.
So it's a lot of fun to do that

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and it's a lot of fun to be back
in the saddle of pastoral

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ministry again.
Not a place I thought I would

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wind up again, but I'm so glad
that I did.

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Yeah, praise God.
Well, what is the name of the

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podcast that you were just
mentioning there?

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Yeah, the podcast is called the
Morning Mindset Christian Daily

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Devotional, and so it's about 6
minutes long. 7 minutes long.

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We just kind of verse by verse
go through the scripture and

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pick out what it's saying to us
and apply it to our lives.

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So.
Yeah, neat.

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Well, hopefully our listeners
will take a listen to that.

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We specifically wanted to chat
through a theme that have come

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out of the first kind of
primarily 4 episodes of When You

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Look and that theme being
obedience.

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So let me kind of just recap
things for all the listeners

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here.
In Episode 1, we've got Jonathan

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and Ashley buying a incredibly
big house, meaning one that was

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far bigger than necessary.
And they did that essentially

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out of obedience.
They were prompted to do that.

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They didn't understand why they
were to do it, and they

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ultimately did it.
And then three weeks after

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moving into this house that was
way bigger than the anticipated,

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they got a call from an adoption
agency in Colombia and ended up

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adopting A sibling group of
three.

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So their family went from 4:00
to 7:00 overnight and ultimately

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kind of filled that that very
large house.

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But it's an, it's a very
interesting scenario there

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because they didn't need the
house.

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They felt prompted to buy it by
the Holy Spirit.

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And then they moved forward in
faith and in obedience.

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So episode 2 takes a different
take here on obedience, but it's

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one where Pat is dreaming and
ultimately warned in a dream

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about a man falling head first
from the sky.

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And this is a faceless man.
And he asked God, what am I

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supposed to do with this?
And God says pray for the man

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and he does.
And that, of course, is the act

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of obedience.
He finds out a handful of days

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later that the man that he had
been praying for, who was

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unidentified, ends up being his
own son who had to jump head

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first from a burning dorm
building.

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And then in Episode 3, we've got
Slick, who's a young college

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student and he is studying and
not studying the word, but

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studying for classes.
And he feels this prompt to

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start praying.
So that was sort of out of the

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ordinary for him.
He starts praying and then feels

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this push to go to a local
basketball court at that same

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night and share the gospel.
And he has enough of a a sense

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of clarity about that that he
calls his buddy and says, when

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we go, somebody's going to be
saved.

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But there is still a decision
there of, am I going to be

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obedient and actually go?
And then in Episode 4, which

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focuses mostly on Tara's
absolutely amazing encounter in

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row 34 on an Air France flight,
1 of the things that's embedded

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in that whole conversation is
that her husband, Jeff, and

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subsequently them together as a
couple felt directed to adopt A

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child from Niger and
specifically Layla, who they had

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previously met.
And so it then takes them 2 1/2

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years to complete that process.
And I think we could look at it

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and go, man, there's a lot of
obedience there.

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Otherwise it could like 2 1/2
years is not a short period of

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time for really anything.
And they persisted out of

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obedience.
So I see obedience in, in a, you

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know, weaving its way through
these episodes.

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And let's hear from you from a,
from a biblical perspective.

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What do you hear?
And you know what scripturally

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are you going to kind of
enlighten us with?

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Yeah, Well, I think it's good
for us to begin just stepping

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back and thinking about that
word obedience.

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We, we as adult human beings in
the Western world don't really

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like that word.
It kind of cramps our style as

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as free individuals.
You know, we wanted, we want to

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chart our own course and do our
own thing.

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And that's what we've been sold
as true freedom.

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But the reality is that that is
not true freedom that leads to

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tyranny, and it's tyranny to
yourself and to sin is what it

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does.
God gives us instruction

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primarily for our provision and
our protection, and he's doing

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so for our good as we are are
following Christ as as

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disciples.
And so obedience is is a thing

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that is just part of Kingdom
life.

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If Jesus gives us instruction,
we are to follow, of course, the

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scriptures are full of all kind
of instruction that we have a

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hard enough time with.
It's an altogether different

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thing when you have situations
like you've just described

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where, where it's like in the
middle of life, you've sensed

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that God is nudging you to go
and do something that maybe

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does, maybe doesn't make sense.
And it seems like the higher the

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risk factor in terms of
embarrassment or other people

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thinking you're crazy or, or
cost of, of, of a house.

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You know, some of those
examples, the more we can talk

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ourselves out of obedience in
those instances.

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So I think a few things to think
about is this.

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First of all, we should be
obeying out of honor to God, out

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of the fear of the Lord is what
the Bible calls it calls it.

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You know, in in Exodus chapter
20 in the old covenant, this was

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demonstrated.
We can see it again in

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Philippians 2.
Exodus 20 says, I am the Lord

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your God who brought you out of
the land of Egypt, out of the

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House of slavery.
You see, he's, he's saying I'm

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your God.
I'm the one in charge here.

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It's not you.
I've done all these things.

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And if you think about the
covenants in the Old Testament,

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the the first covenant that
really makes a big difference

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for us today is the Abrahamic
covenant.

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That was a one way covenant.
That was God just saying,

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Abraham, I'm going to bless you.
I'm just going to take care of

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you.
I'm going to bless your family.

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I'm going to bless all the
families of the earth through

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you.
But then you get to the Mosaic

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covenant, which was a very
different kind of covenant.

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And something people get
confused about is that they tend

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to think the old Mosaic covenant
superseded the Abrahamic

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covenant, and it didn't.
Abrahamic covenant was still in

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place.
You know, if those who have the

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faith of Abraham, God will save
them.

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God will make them his own.
The Mosaic covenant came in as a

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provision for the people of
Israel because they had never

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been a nation up to that point.
And so God's basically laying

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down the law literally for how
to run a society and how to be a

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people and how to care for each
other and all those kinds of

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things.
And that was a two way covenant.

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God said if you obey me in these
ways, and he delineates all of

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it, you'll be blessed.
If you disobey me and he kind of

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gives the other side of the
coin, you'll be cursed.

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And so it's a two way covenant
where there's God promising

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something and the people
obligated to do something.

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And that whole Mosaic covenant
thing to me kind of stresses for

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me how important it is to obey
God because he has a heart and a

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disposition to bless his people,
to care for them, to provide

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everything they need.
But it's contingent on our

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blessing most of the time.
Now, it doesn't mean we're

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earning anything from God.
It's just that God's a good

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father.
He doesn't want spoiled kids who

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just have everything they want
and no responsibility.

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He wants us to grow.
He wants us to grow in faith.

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He wants us to grow in our, our
ability to discern right and

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wrong and choose the, the right
thing.

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Now, the cool thing about that
though, is that he does all this

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out of love and he doesn't just
give us rules to follow.

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He says, here, here's the rules
to follow.

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And by the way, here's the power
to follow with.

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And that's the power of the Holy
Spirit.

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You know, he, he gives us the
means as well as the

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instruction.
So our excuses don't really

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matter when it comes down to am
I able to do this or not?

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You know, sounds risky.
Whatever God's going, hey,

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that's not your problem.
You just step in and obey.

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I have all the resource you
need.

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And that's what I hear in a lot
of these circumstances that you

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just described, these people had
this hunch from God, this, this

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nudge that they needed to do
XYZ.

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And in many of those cases, they
didn't have the resource.

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If they did, they didn't
understand why they would be

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putting out such an expenditure.
If they if they did, they didn't

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know why they had to wait so
long.

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But in every case, faith turned
into obedience.

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They believed God and therefore
they acted.

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And that's probably the third
theological thing I would say

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about obedience.
Obedience demonstrates faith and

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obedience grows faith.
If you remember one of the

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famous lines from the the book
of James is faith by itself, if

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it does not have works, is dead.
And what he's saying is that you

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can say all you want that you
believe God about anything.

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Oh, I believe he wants me to do
this.

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I believe he wants.
But if you don't ever do it,

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what good's your faith?
Right, you have proven nothing.

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Yeah, You've proven nothing.
You're just a bunch of talk.

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You know, you're not doing
anything that proves that you

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truly believe.
And if you look at Hebrews,

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where it goes into Chapter 11,
which we call the Hall of Faith,

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it's all these people who are
examples of faith, and it says

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by faith they did, by faith they
did, by faith they did.

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That's the repeated pattern.
And they're the ones that are

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held up to us as paragons of
faith, the ones who have

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demonstrated for us what faith
looks like.

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And then the cool thing is when
you get past that and it says,

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since we are surrounded by so
great a cloud of witnesses, let

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us run the race with
perseverance, you know, and, and

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many people think of those
witnesses as like, oh, they're

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up in heaven and they're looking
down on us and they're watching

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our live.
That's not the context at all.

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The context is these people who
he just talked about are

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witnesses, like in a courtroom
witnessing, testifying to us.

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My faith in God paid off.
God was faithful to his word, so

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you can trust him too.
And so that's the call to

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obedience as Christians and I, I
hear it in every one of these

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stories.
Yeah.

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Wow, so much there.
OK, so let let's go a little bit

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deeper here because right at
your opening there about, you

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know, most Americans do do not
like obedience.

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I couldn't agree with that more.
Yeah, we like our dogs to be

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obedient, you know, but not us.
Yeah, it, it, it is, it is

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antithetical to the build your
own empire type of mentality and

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that that's pushed fully in
culture, you know, and I think,

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I think there's huge risk with
that.

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I, I, I just putting, putting it
out there.

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I just do not think that that's
wise, period.

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Let's talk about this concept
briefly here of immediate

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obedience, because not only has
it been said to me, but I have

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directly experienced it before.
When I delay my obedience,

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obeying gets even more
challenging.

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So as I've, as I've matured in
my, you know, in my walking, my

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actual doing of my faith, it's
become very important to me to

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be immediately obedient as a
sign of submission to the King.

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Yeah, yeah.
And I think we see that dynamic

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that you're describing in many
biblical characters.

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Their lives are a progression of
learning how to obey more

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quickly.
I mean, I think of Abraham as a

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classic story of this.
He, he believed God when God

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said if your father and mother
in the land and he went, he just

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went right away.
But then you see these other

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places in his life where he
hesitated or he, he kind of took

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things into his own hands and
tried to fix the problems his

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own way instead of waiting on
God to provide a solution.

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And by the end of his life, when
God calls him to do the biggest,

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most difficult thing ever, he
didn't hesitate.

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He got up in the morning, he
took his son and he went to do

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what God had told him to do.
And we get this, this glimpse

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into Abraham's soul in the New
Testament when it comments on

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Abraham taking his son Isaac,
the only son he had, that God

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had promised the the lineage of
the Messiah to come through up

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on a mountain to sacrifice him
in the New Testament says he

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reasoned that God was able to
raise the dead.

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So think of the size of that
faith.

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He, he's like, yeah, this
circumstance makes no sense and

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00:16:47,000 --> 00:16:51,360
is absolutely crazy out of my
gourd, but I'm going to do it

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because my God can raise the
dead.

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And, and he was basically saying
that's what he's going to have

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to do if I kill my son, because
God made a promise that my son

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would would one day lead to a
blessing to all nations.

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And so we know the story.
God stopped him had a different

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plan than even Abraham thought.
But his obedience is what is

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what he's known for now.
And it's not just that situation

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with with Isaac.
It's it's believing God when God

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00:17:19,040 --> 00:17:20,839
made promises to him and things
like that.

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So the New Testament tells us
those who have the faith of

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Abraham are children of Abraham.
And so obedience and faith, they

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go hand in hand, but our our
tendency to wait has everything

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00:17:33,560 --> 00:17:37,040
to do with our own insecurity
and our own fear has nothing to

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00:17:37,040 --> 00:17:40,120
do with how big our God is.
You know, we're, we're not

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00:17:40,120 --> 00:17:42,280
looking at God at that moment,
We're looking at us.

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And so I think that's why the
writer of Hebrews says, fix your

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eyes on Jesus, the author and
perfecter of your faith.

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00:17:48,640 --> 00:17:50,480
It's all about him.
It's not about you.

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And that's one of the things
that makes the Christian faith

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00:17:53,760 --> 00:17:59,080
so unique and so powerful is
that we are not people who walk

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00:17:59,080 --> 00:18:00,920
by sight.
We are people who walk by faith.

301
00:18:00,920 --> 00:18:02,360
Now, it doesn't mean we're
stupid.

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00:18:02,640 --> 00:18:06,960
It doesn't mean we're assuming
things of God or presuming upon

303
00:18:06,960 --> 00:18:09,520
him.
It means we are walking daily in

304
00:18:09,520 --> 00:18:12,800
relationship with him.
And when we believe he's telling

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00:18:12,800 --> 00:18:16,600
us to act, we act.
And that's hard for us

306
00:18:16,600 --> 00:18:19,360
Americans.
We, we just, we just don't like

307
00:18:19,360 --> 00:18:20,840
anyone else being in the
driver's seat.

308
00:18:20,840 --> 00:18:22,680
But Christianity is all about
that.

309
00:18:23,280 --> 00:18:29,080
Yeah, and that driver's seat and
not liking other people to be in

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that driver's seat.
One of the ways in which I have

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00:18:31,600 --> 00:18:37,800
seen that play out in many lives
and my own is this concept that

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I have heard even from the
pulpit before.

313
00:18:42,160 --> 00:18:47,840
And that is this idea of I'm
going to go do this, whatever

314
00:18:47,840 --> 00:18:54,400
this may be, OK, because it
seems like it may be reasonable

315
00:18:54,520 --> 00:18:59,680
or appropriate or holy or
aligned with God, at least

316
00:18:59,680 --> 00:19:03,760
conceptually.
And God, if you don't want that

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00:19:03,760 --> 00:19:10,640
to happen, close the door.
And I think from your original

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00:19:10,640 --> 00:19:16,120
point about the Bible being
filled with guidance and

319
00:19:16,120 --> 00:19:20,080
direction for how we are to live
our lives, there's really not

320
00:19:20,080 --> 00:19:23,800
much in there that talks about,
all right, you guys go figure

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00:19:23,800 --> 00:19:25,880
this out.
And I'll decide which doors I'm

322
00:19:25,880 --> 00:19:28,000
going to open and close for you.
Right?

323
00:19:28,080 --> 00:19:30,040
Yeah.
I mean, his ways are very much

324
00:19:30,040 --> 00:19:33,360
higher than our own ways.
And so I have learned the very

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00:19:33,360 --> 00:19:40,360
hard lesson of no more of that.
It is simply until he's told me

326
00:19:40,600 --> 00:19:42,840
and I want to get your take on
this, This is not all about me,

327
00:19:42,840 --> 00:19:47,600
but I, I until he's told me to
take action, I'm not taking

328
00:19:47,600 --> 00:19:55,040
action any longer because the
obedience is, in my opinion,

329
00:19:55,440 --> 00:20:01,200
both the taking of action and
then the decision of not taking

330
00:20:01,200 --> 00:20:03,040
action.
You know what I'm saying?

331
00:20:03,760 --> 00:20:07,680
We're not doing a thing right,
but that being an actual

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00:20:07,680 --> 00:20:12,160
decision being made, you know?
Yeah, some honor to God.

333
00:20:12,280 --> 00:20:14,960
Yeah, yeah.
So what are what's your thoughts

334
00:20:14,960 --> 00:20:17,920
on all that?
Yeah, well, it's, it's very

335
00:20:17,920 --> 00:20:22,960
interesting because what you're
describing somewhat parallels

336
00:20:23,360 --> 00:20:28,000
the the account of Gideon in the
book of Judges when he receives

337
00:20:28,000 --> 00:20:31,480
this instruction from God to go
and deliver the people, you

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00:20:31,480 --> 00:20:35,280
know, as a judge in the land and
on, you know, Gideon, when you

339
00:20:35,280 --> 00:20:38,840
first meet Gideon, he's hiding
inside this, this, this

340
00:20:38,840 --> 00:20:41,960
structure trying to sort out the
and you can't do it because

341
00:20:41,960 --> 00:20:44,600
there's no wind and all this.
So he, he's like a coward.

342
00:20:44,600 --> 00:20:47,880
He's just hiding from the armies
that are invading, which, you

343
00:20:47,880 --> 00:20:51,800
know, I'm not sure I would be
doing any better, but he he gets

344
00:20:51,800 --> 00:20:54,000
called to do this.
And so it's kind of natural.

345
00:20:54,000 --> 00:20:58,480
He's skeptical and he he does
what we now have this phrase

346
00:20:58,840 --> 00:21:03,960
from he, he puts out a fleece.
So he literally takes fleece

347
00:21:03,960 --> 00:21:06,120
from sheep and he puts it out on
the ground and he says, OK,

348
00:21:06,120 --> 00:21:09,640
Lord, if, if you really want me
to do this, make the fleece wet

349
00:21:09,640 --> 00:21:11,040
and the ground dry in the
morning.

350
00:21:11,680 --> 00:21:12,720
Well, in the morning, guess
what?

351
00:21:12,720 --> 00:21:14,520
The fleece is wet and the
ground's dry.

352
00:21:15,280 --> 00:21:16,640
But that's not good enough for
Gideon.

353
00:21:16,920 --> 00:21:21,800
He says, OK, tomorrow make the
ground wet and the fleece dry.

354
00:21:22,440 --> 00:21:24,960
So he reverses it and God does
that.

355
00:21:24,960 --> 00:21:29,160
You know, God was very patient
with him and, and was kind of

356
00:21:29,160 --> 00:21:31,840
sympathetic to his fears and all
of that sort of stuff.

357
00:21:32,280 --> 00:21:37,080
Now I say that because Gideon's
circumstance is kind of like I'm

358
00:21:37,080 --> 00:21:40,320
going to walk through this door
and, and Lord, you shut it if

359
00:21:40,320 --> 00:21:42,760
you don't want me to go.
So I'm, I guess I'm pushing back

360
00:21:42,760 --> 00:21:46,120
on your thing just a little bit,
but but not much, not much

361
00:21:46,120 --> 00:21:49,640
because there's not many times
in the scripture where someone

362
00:21:49,640 --> 00:21:52,040
puts out a fleece.
Not many at all.

363
00:21:52,520 --> 00:21:55,320
I mean, there's times where they
would cast lots sometimes or

364
00:21:55,320 --> 00:21:58,080
they use this stuff called the
Uma Urum and the Thummim.

365
00:21:58,080 --> 00:22:01,280
And I don't even know what they
were to determine God's will on

366
00:22:01,280 --> 00:22:04,720
things.
But that's not the common way

367
00:22:04,920 --> 00:22:10,000
that we are to make decisions as
believers is is doing some sort

368
00:22:10,000 --> 00:22:14,320
of thing of chance or, or taking
steps in asking God to prevent

369
00:22:14,320 --> 00:22:17,920
us from doing something dumb.
You know, the common way you

370
00:22:17,920 --> 00:22:21,560
alluded to is to know the word
of God and to follow the

371
00:22:21,560 --> 00:22:24,840
principles that he gives us.
You know, he's generally not

372
00:22:24,840 --> 00:22:27,160
going to go against what he's
already told us to do.

373
00:22:27,160 --> 00:22:28,640
I mean, that just makes common
sense.

374
00:22:29,240 --> 00:22:34,560
And so, you know, our lives are
to be governed by what he's

375
00:22:34,560 --> 00:22:37,400
already revealed.
And I tell my kids this all the

376
00:22:37,400 --> 00:22:39,720
time.
All my kids are adults and you

377
00:22:39,720 --> 00:22:42,400
know, a few of them are not
married yet and, and come to me

378
00:22:42,400 --> 00:22:45,560
for advice here and there.
And I tell my kids all the time,

379
00:22:46,280 --> 00:22:48,880
God does not have a problem
communicating with you.

380
00:22:50,160 --> 00:22:53,120
He really doesn't.
He's the master communicator.

381
00:22:53,360 --> 00:22:59,040
So you have every opportunity,
every privilege to just wait.

382
00:22:59,640 --> 00:23:02,760
Just wait.
When he wants you to act, you

383
00:23:02,760 --> 00:23:05,120
will know it.
It'll come through the word.

384
00:23:05,120 --> 00:23:06,880
It'll come through a word from a
friend.

385
00:23:06,880 --> 00:23:10,280
It'll come through a repeated
theme that you start seeing

386
00:23:10,280 --> 00:23:12,040
happen in your life.
You know something.

387
00:23:12,280 --> 00:23:14,200
He will speak to you.
He might even just come to you

388
00:23:14,200 --> 00:23:16,120
through a vision and a dream.
You never know.

389
00:23:16,560 --> 00:23:20,680
But he will communicate with you
when he's ready to communicate.

390
00:23:22,040 --> 00:23:25,680
Yeah, I mean, a great example of
that scripturally is Moses.

391
00:23:26,120 --> 00:23:29,200
Moses in the middle of nowhere,
fully in the middle of nowhere,

392
00:23:30,200 --> 00:23:34,400
and God speaks to him through a
burning Bush or a Bush on fire,

393
00:23:34,400 --> 00:23:38,360
really, You know what I mean?
And hey, it's I'm getting your

394
00:23:38,360 --> 00:23:42,640
attention.
And you know, the Bible is is

395
00:23:42,640 --> 00:23:44,120
filled with those kind of
things.

396
00:23:44,400 --> 00:23:50,560
OK, so let's talk about a
defining conversation around

397
00:23:50,600 --> 00:23:56,160
obedience.
And this is Samuel confronting

398
00:23:56,160 --> 00:23:58,880
Saul.
My goodness, Yeah.

399
00:23:59,440 --> 00:24:02,840
So for those that aren't
familiar with the story, Saul is

400
00:24:02,880 --> 00:24:09,920
instructed to wipe out an entire
people group and he saves the

401
00:24:09,920 --> 00:24:15,080
king and saves the livestock and
Sam.

402
00:24:15,080 --> 00:24:18,080
Had also been told not to save.
That's right, yeah.

403
00:24:18,720 --> 00:24:22,600
And Samuel then confronts him
about this and essentially says,

404
00:24:22,600 --> 00:24:25,800
what is this that I'm hearing?
Meaning the sound of the

405
00:24:25,800 --> 00:24:29,280
livestock.
And again, I'm paraphrasing

406
00:24:29,280 --> 00:24:36,040
here, but what Saul says is,
yes, I had the best of

407
00:24:36,040 --> 00:24:41,920
intentions.
I was being merciful in saving

408
00:24:41,920 --> 00:24:47,720
the king and then was planning
to sacrifice all of the

409
00:24:47,720 --> 00:24:52,240
livestock to God.
And now I'm going to let you

410
00:24:52,240 --> 00:24:56,120
kind of take it from here,
because Samuel basically

411
00:24:56,120 --> 00:24:58,480
bloodies his nose, you know what
I mean?

412
00:24:58,480 --> 00:25:01,800
At least verbally.
Yeah, and Samuel?

413
00:25:01,920 --> 00:25:06,160
Super powerful line.
Yeah, Samuel goes after him and

414
00:25:06,160 --> 00:25:08,520
he says to obey is better than
sacrifice.

415
00:25:08,520 --> 00:25:11,280
God does not want the blood of
sheep and goats.

416
00:25:11,280 --> 00:25:12,640
You know, he, he wants your
heart.

417
00:25:13,040 --> 00:25:15,920
And then I think the part that
most of us cultured Christians

418
00:25:15,920 --> 00:25:22,360
forget about is Samuel pulls out
a sword and he hacks that king

419
00:25:22,360 --> 00:25:24,920
into pieces right in front of
Saul.

420
00:25:26,120 --> 00:25:30,960
Now, Can you imagine?
Oh, my goodness, I mean, people

421
00:25:30,960 --> 00:25:34,160
think of, you know, Christianity
is this neat and tidy thing.

422
00:25:34,160 --> 00:25:38,760
Oh, my goodness, man, that was a
brutal time to live in.

423
00:25:38,760 --> 00:25:44,200
And Samuel, this prophet of God,
because he fears God more than

424
00:25:44,200 --> 00:25:48,920
he fears even Saul.
The king just does the obedience

425
00:25:48,920 --> 00:25:53,520
for Saul to show him.
You have really blown it here,

426
00:25:53,520 --> 00:25:56,400
dude.
And sadly that was not Saul's

427
00:25:56,400 --> 00:26:00,720
last time to disobey God.
I mean a dress command and it

428
00:26:00,720 --> 00:26:05,160
cost him his Kingdom.
And that that's this is a time

429
00:26:05,160 --> 00:26:08,840
where Samuel as the leader of
the nation is under that old

430
00:26:08,840 --> 00:26:12,040
Mosaic covenant.
So he's supposed to be obedient

431
00:26:12,040 --> 00:26:14,520
and he'll have blessing, but
he's being disobedient and he

432
00:26:14,520 --> 00:26:17,920
gets curses and God has God
being true to his word.

433
00:26:18,440 --> 00:26:21,160
And so some people would look at
that and say, that's a harsh

434
00:26:21,160 --> 00:26:22,680
God.
That's a punitive God.

435
00:26:23,200 --> 00:26:25,880
No, that that's a God who just
told you how it is.

436
00:26:26,360 --> 00:26:29,800
And you, you have the option,
you know, to, to obey or

437
00:26:29,800 --> 00:26:32,480
disobey.
And Saul as the leader got full

438
00:26:32,480 --> 00:26:35,080
of his pride and and just did
things his own way.

439
00:26:36,760 --> 00:26:42,120
Yeah, I'll tell you, man, the
impact that that particular

440
00:26:42,440 --> 00:26:47,280
block of Scripture has had on my
life has been tremendous.

441
00:26:47,880 --> 00:26:52,040
And what I mean by that is, is
just thematically, it's been

442
00:26:52,040 --> 00:26:57,040
highly instructive.
But the first time that God sort

443
00:26:57,040 --> 00:27:00,920
of imprinted that into me,
meaning to obey is more

444
00:27:00,920 --> 00:27:06,280
important than sacrifice, was,
of all things, specifically

445
00:27:06,280 --> 00:27:10,960
around tithing.
So that story between Samuel and

446
00:27:10,960 --> 00:27:14,760
Saul is almost never related to
tithing.

447
00:27:15,200 --> 00:27:18,800
And the Holy Spirit, as I was
reading it, revealed to me, hey,

448
00:27:19,440 --> 00:27:23,480
this for you, Mick, has to do
with dollars and cents.

449
00:27:24,240 --> 00:27:28,720
This isn't about gross or net.
This is about you doing it

450
00:27:29,400 --> 00:27:34,160
because to obey is more
important than sacrifice, and

451
00:27:34,160 --> 00:27:37,960
God has everything he could
possibly ever need.

452
00:27:38,200 --> 00:27:42,360
In fact, what's been really
wonderful for me is a bit of the

453
00:27:42,360 --> 00:27:47,480
revelation of this idea that of
course obedience is more

454
00:27:47,480 --> 00:27:51,480
important than sacrifice,
because the things that I could

455
00:27:51,480 --> 00:27:56,280
sacrifice or that anyone could
have sacrificed Saul or any of

456
00:27:56,280 --> 00:28:00,280
the other kings, If we're going
to rewind the clock, all of it

457
00:28:00,800 --> 00:28:07,920
was created and provided by God.
He doesn't, He doesn't need it.

458
00:28:08,600 --> 00:28:10,560
What does he want?
Exactly what you were

459
00:28:10,560 --> 00:28:15,360
describing, which is He's after
our hearts and evidence of our

460
00:28:15,360 --> 00:28:19,040
hearts being oriented towards
Him is obedience to His

461
00:28:19,040 --> 00:28:21,120
guidance.
Yeah, yeah.

462
00:28:21,120 --> 00:28:24,680
And I think an important point
to to highlight here, just so

463
00:28:24,680 --> 00:28:31,400
people don't get the wrong idea,
God is not an insecure being

464
00:28:31,960 --> 00:28:35,720
that if we don't obey, Oh no,
how does it reflect on me as

465
00:28:35,720 --> 00:28:36,720
God?
You know, all of it.

466
00:28:36,960 --> 00:28:41,440
That's not what this is about.
God being the all sufficient

467
00:28:41,440 --> 00:28:50,040
perfect creator and ruler of the
universe is the very best person

468
00:28:50,040 --> 00:28:55,040
thing being we could even have
and be a part of our lives.

469
00:28:55,840 --> 00:29:00,040
And so for him to impress upon
us and insist that we obey him,

470
00:29:00,280 --> 00:29:03,400
he is insisting that we do what
is best for us.

471
00:29:04,640 --> 00:29:07,680
Do you do you catch that?
He's not some, he's not some

472
00:29:07,720 --> 00:29:14,120
older or some kind of a, an
oppressive ruler who's trying to

473
00:29:14,120 --> 00:29:17,280
subjugate people on some kind of
a power trip.

474
00:29:17,840 --> 00:29:19,400
He doesn't need to have a power
trip.

475
00:29:19,400 --> 00:29:24,320
He has all the power.
He he's just wanting out of his

476
00:29:24,320 --> 00:29:28,000
heart of love for us to have the
very best thing, which is him.

477
00:29:28,600 --> 00:29:31,760
And he knows that obedience to
him will grow love for Him,

478
00:29:31,920 --> 00:29:36,000
which will grow trust in Him,
which will grow us into people

479
00:29:36,000 --> 00:29:38,720
who truly love Him.
And that's what he's after,

480
00:29:38,720 --> 00:29:43,000
because that's good for us.
Yeah, Amen.

481
00:29:44,280 --> 00:29:50,160
Well, Carrie, I really liked how
you connected faith essentially

482
00:29:50,160 --> 00:29:57,080
preceding obedience.
And it almost seems as if your

483
00:29:57,080 --> 00:30:04,000
implication there was the size
of our faith can in a lot of

484
00:30:04,000 --> 00:30:09,600
ways be evidenced by the size or
degree of our obedience.

485
00:30:09,720 --> 00:30:11,520
What is your?
What are your thoughts on that?

486
00:30:12,840 --> 00:30:15,680
Yeah, that's an interesting way
to put it.

487
00:30:15,680 --> 00:30:18,280
I don't typically think of faith
in terms of size.

488
00:30:18,280 --> 00:30:21,520
You know, Jesus said if you have
the faith the size of a mustard

489
00:30:21,520 --> 00:30:25,160
seed, which is teeny, you can
say the tree be removed and cast

490
00:30:25,160 --> 00:30:26,440
in the sea and it'll be done for
you.

491
00:30:26,440 --> 00:30:28,840
So.
So Jesus is minimizing that idea

492
00:30:28,840 --> 00:30:31,520
of the size.
But I think what I would say is

493
00:30:32,520 --> 00:30:36,360
just kind of echoing what James
says in another passage where he

494
00:30:36,600 --> 00:30:39,520
he kind of creates this
imaginary person who's having a

495
00:30:39,520 --> 00:30:45,080
debate with him.
And he says, you say you have

496
00:30:45,080 --> 00:30:48,760
faith and I have works.
Well, show me your faith without

497
00:30:48,760 --> 00:30:51,160
your works.
I'll show you my faith by what I

498
00:30:51,160 --> 00:30:52,640
do.
And he's kind of saying, which

499
00:30:52,640 --> 00:30:55,400
one's better which, which one is
really going to prove that

500
00:30:55,400 --> 00:30:58,160
there's faith?
It's the guy who does something

501
00:30:58,360 --> 00:31:01,480
because he believes in it.
And we're not just talking about

502
00:31:01,480 --> 00:31:04,240
random doing something, we're
talking about obedience to God.

503
00:31:04,720 --> 00:31:10,360
And so I think that faith by
itself, without some sort of

504
00:31:10,360 --> 00:31:16,560
follow through is just well
wishing And, and honestly, it's

505
00:31:16,560 --> 00:31:19,600
self deception.
You know, I can't tell you the

506
00:31:19,600 --> 00:31:22,520
number of people who who have
come into my office or sat in my

507
00:31:22,520 --> 00:31:24,720
living room for counseling in
one sort or another.

508
00:31:25,200 --> 00:31:29,280
And they say things like, Oh,
yeah, I'm.

509
00:31:29,480 --> 00:31:31,800
I really struggle with pride.
I know, I'm proud.

510
00:31:33,200 --> 00:31:35,600
I know, I know that I can be
harsh on my wife.

511
00:31:35,600 --> 00:31:37,640
I know, you know, and they'll
confess all these things.

512
00:31:38,000 --> 00:31:40,920
And what I noticed over the
years is that the confession

513
00:31:40,920 --> 00:31:44,000
becomes kind of like a pressure
valve with it, that they release

514
00:31:44,000 --> 00:31:48,120
the pressure of their guilt and
their obligation just enough

515
00:31:48,120 --> 00:31:50,360
that they're comfortable again
because they confess to the

516
00:31:50,360 --> 00:31:52,400
pastor.
And then they go out and they

517
00:31:52,400 --> 00:31:54,240
keep living exactly the same
way.

518
00:31:55,200 --> 00:31:59,320
And I think that's, that's kind
of like faith that you speak,

519
00:31:59,320 --> 00:32:03,280
but you don't act on.
It's, it's like you saying it,

520
00:32:03,280 --> 00:32:05,200
yes, I believe God.
I believe God can do this.

521
00:32:05,200 --> 00:32:07,560
Amen, Amen.
That's kind of like the pressure

522
00:32:07,560 --> 00:32:10,360
valve.
We, we, we make ourselves feel

523
00:32:10,360 --> 00:32:14,760
like we're people of faith when
the reality is we are scared to

524
00:32:14,760 --> 00:32:19,120
death and we are not going to do
it no matter what because we

525
00:32:19,120 --> 00:32:23,080
want to be in control.
And God says, I don't play that

526
00:32:23,080 --> 00:32:25,320
way.
You either obey or you don't.

527
00:32:25,760 --> 00:32:29,320
And and Nick, it's funny the way
you said something earlier about

528
00:32:29,320 --> 00:32:35,480
delayed obedience when we were
parenting, we had seen kids all

529
00:32:35,480 --> 00:32:38,640
around before We had kids that
were just, you know, I'm going

530
00:32:38,640 --> 00:32:41,160
to count to 10.
And and if you don't know about,

531
00:32:41,160 --> 00:32:42,600
you know, we'd see.
And we were like, we're we're

532
00:32:42,600 --> 00:32:44,320
not, we're not going there.
We're not going to do that.

533
00:32:44,800 --> 00:32:47,120
And so a line we learned from
someone, I don't know where it

534
00:32:47,120 --> 00:32:50,760
came from really was delayed
obedience is disobedience.

535
00:32:51,640 --> 00:32:54,640
And so we would say that to our
kids, you know, delayed

536
00:32:54,640 --> 00:32:58,440
obedience is disobedience.
So, you know, don't think that

537
00:32:58,440 --> 00:33:03,160
if I tell you, I'm going to tell
you a second time because you

538
00:33:03,160 --> 00:33:05,080
know, there's room for grace
here.

539
00:33:05,080 --> 00:33:06,960
You know, I, I have to
understand a three-year old

540
00:33:06,960 --> 00:33:09,320
maybe didn't hear you because
he's so engrossed in his leg.

541
00:33:09,320 --> 00:33:14,040
I was OK, I get that.
But delayed obedience is not

542
00:33:14,040 --> 00:33:16,680
obedience at all.
Talking so much about obedience

543
00:33:17,760 --> 00:33:22,720
can feel and even be
communicated as if it's all

544
00:33:22,720 --> 00:33:27,320
about some sort of legalism that
you got to grit your teeth and

545
00:33:27,320 --> 00:33:31,840
you just got to, you know, do
it, gut it out, you just got to

546
00:33:31,840 --> 00:33:34,000
do it no matter how hard it is,
etcetera.

547
00:33:34,000 --> 00:33:38,800
You know, kind of like no pain,
no gain, sort of an idea that is

548
00:33:38,800 --> 00:33:41,240
so antithetical to Christian
obedience.

549
00:33:41,960 --> 00:33:45,360
Christian obedience is not about
us figuring out how to live up

550
00:33:45,360 --> 00:33:47,720
to some standard that God has
for us.

551
00:33:49,000 --> 00:33:52,200
We can't do that.
There's only one person, whoever

552
00:33:52,200 --> 00:33:55,960
lived the Christian life, and
that was Jesus Christ, and he

553
00:33:55,960 --> 00:33:58,640
now wants to live that life
through us.

554
00:33:58,640 --> 00:34:02,240
So just let that settle on you
for a minute.

555
00:34:03,360 --> 00:34:10,400
He wants to live His life
perfect, absolutely pure, loving

556
00:34:10,400 --> 00:34:13,280
toward everyone.
Just when he needs to be just

557
00:34:13,280 --> 00:34:15,639
merciful, when he needs to be
merciful, He wants to live that

558
00:34:15,639 --> 00:34:19,760
life through us in the
circumstances of our everyday.

559
00:34:20,080 --> 00:34:22,120
You know, it was always
confusing to me in John chapter

560
00:34:22,120 --> 00:34:26,400
14, when Jesus tells the
disciples, I'm going away, I'm

561
00:34:26,400 --> 00:34:28,560
going to, I'm going to hit the
road in a bit, you know, and

562
00:34:28,560 --> 00:34:30,960
he's talking about his ascension
into heaven after his

563
00:34:30,960 --> 00:34:33,400
crucifixion.
And, and they're all just very,

564
00:34:33,400 --> 00:34:36,679
very sad.
And he says which which I get,

565
00:34:36,760 --> 00:34:40,000
you know, you walked with Jesus
for 3 1/2 years, I'd be sad too.

566
00:34:41,199 --> 00:34:42,679
And he says, you don't
understand.

567
00:34:42,920 --> 00:34:45,960
It is better for you if I go
away, because if I don't go

568
00:34:45,960 --> 00:34:48,840
away, the comforter, which is
the Holy Spirit, cannot come.

569
00:34:48,840 --> 00:34:52,400
And why is that better?
Well, it's because now through

570
00:34:52,400 --> 00:34:57,400
the Holy Spirit, Jesus lives
inside of every one of us and he

571
00:34:57,400 --> 00:35:02,320
empowers us to be obedient, just
like Jesus was obedient when he

572
00:35:02,320 --> 00:35:05,600
walked on this earth.
You see, I believe firmly, and I

573
00:35:05,600 --> 00:35:07,640
think I can make a case from
this, from the Gospel of John

574
00:35:07,640 --> 00:35:10,720
especially.
Jesus did not live the perfect

575
00:35:10,720 --> 00:35:12,600
life that he did because he was
God.

576
00:35:13,800 --> 00:35:17,160
He lived the perfect life.
He did because the Holy Spirit,

577
00:35:17,760 --> 00:35:20,840
God, the third person of the
Trinity, empowered him.

578
00:35:22,160 --> 00:35:25,040
He was living an example of what
we are to do.

579
00:35:25,400 --> 00:35:28,000
We are to submit to the power of
the Holy Spirit and obey in

580
00:35:28,000 --> 00:35:29,760
that.
And so here's where the faith

581
00:35:29,760 --> 00:35:33,200
and the obedience come together.
God gives us something very

582
00:35:33,200 --> 00:35:36,080
difficult to do, something
challenging to our faith.

583
00:35:36,760 --> 00:35:40,600
We not only believe God is able
to handle whatever the

584
00:35:40,600 --> 00:35:44,320
circumstances, but we also
believe God the Holy Spirit who

585
00:35:44,320 --> 00:35:49,280
lives in me, is able to enable
me to do what I've got to do and

586
00:35:49,280 --> 00:35:51,760
to do it well, to do it with a
good attitude, to do it in a way

587
00:35:51,760 --> 00:35:53,680
that honors God.
All the things that it should

588
00:35:53,680 --> 00:35:58,120
look like he's able to do.
And those things combined are

589
00:35:58,120 --> 00:36:01,840
Christian obedience.
Yes, we're just doing it, but we

590
00:36:01,840 --> 00:36:03,680
are not just doing it.
He is doing it.

591
00:36:04,320 --> 00:36:08,360
And so if we miss that part,
we've just made a new law.

592
00:36:08,800 --> 00:36:10,880
That's all we've done.
We made-up a new set of rules

593
00:36:10,880 --> 00:36:12,840
for ourselves that we've got to
live up to.

594
00:36:13,240 --> 00:36:14,480
And that didn't work the first
time.

595
00:36:14,480 --> 00:36:15,560
Why do we think it's going to
work?

596
00:36:15,560 --> 00:36:19,960
Second, we need the Holy Spirit
in US to be able to to do this

597
00:36:19,960 --> 00:36:24,080
sort of thing in US.
You know, Romans 813 says, if by

598
00:36:24,080 --> 00:36:28,640
the Spirit you put to death the
deeds of the body, you'll live.

599
00:36:29,720 --> 00:36:33,240
You know, And so he's not saying
grit your teeth and gut it out.

600
00:36:33,240 --> 00:36:37,080
He's saying live by the Spirit,
let him do the work through you.

601
00:36:37,600 --> 00:36:39,040
And that's how the Christian
life happens.

602
00:36:39,040 --> 00:36:41,800
That's how it works.
Yeah.

603
00:36:42,760 --> 00:36:45,360
Well said, man.
Well said.

604
00:36:45,960 --> 00:36:48,720
Yeah, I think it's cool that
you're pulling out themes from

605
00:36:48,720 --> 00:36:53,280
these these stories that you're
highlighting because God, you

606
00:36:53,280 --> 00:36:54,840
see this in the Scripture.
God does this.

607
00:36:54,840 --> 00:36:57,440
He, he'll, he'll highlight a
theme in a certain section of

608
00:36:57,440 --> 00:37:00,400
scripture because he, he knows
people are going to deal with

609
00:37:00,400 --> 00:37:03,760
those circumstances.
And, and you know, what better

610
00:37:03,760 --> 00:37:06,960
way to highlight it than in
stories of people and, and the

611
00:37:06,960 --> 00:37:08,880
things they've had to do?
I love it.

612
00:37:08,880 --> 00:37:10,720
Yeah.
Well, and to that end, I think

613
00:37:10,720 --> 00:37:13,640
it's really important for all
the folks that are listening to

614
00:37:13,640 --> 00:37:15,840
you.
And I have this conversation now

615
00:37:16,320 --> 00:37:20,920
that haven't necessarily heard
those other stories because

616
00:37:21,160 --> 00:37:25,160
having interviewed those folks,
I can tell you for sure they put

617
00:37:25,160 --> 00:37:27,320
their pants on one leg at a
time.

618
00:37:27,840 --> 00:37:32,560
And what I mean by that is they
are truly just regular people

619
00:37:33,400 --> 00:37:36,080
and they did extraordinary
things.

620
00:37:36,080 --> 00:37:40,080
Or perhaps a better way to say
it is back to what you were

621
00:37:40,080 --> 00:37:44,680
describing earlier.
They did God's extraordinary

622
00:37:44,680 --> 00:37:47,760
things or God even did
extraordinary things through

623
00:37:47,760 --> 00:37:50,200
them.
But they're otherwise normal

624
00:37:50,200 --> 00:37:53,760
people.
And that is what is so powerful

625
00:37:53,760 --> 00:37:58,400
to me.
And I like to use the terms of

626
00:37:58,480 --> 00:38:04,120
inspirational and aspirational
together because I think it's

627
00:38:04,120 --> 00:38:08,680
great to be inspired, but I
think it's also wonderful if we

628
00:38:08,680 --> 00:38:14,160
say, Hey, I, I want to, I want
to behave like that to glorify

629
00:38:14,160 --> 00:38:18,120
the king, you know what I mean?
And so that's part of what these

630
00:38:18,120 --> 00:38:20,760
stories do.
I mean, they are both, at least

631
00:38:20,760 --> 00:38:23,560
for me and I think for other
listeners, they're, they're

632
00:38:23,560 --> 00:38:26,720
inspirational for sure, but
aspirational knowing.

633
00:38:27,200 --> 00:38:31,040
And he sounds like, you know,
episode 1 is a regular couple.

634
00:38:31,400 --> 00:38:36,360
You know, episode 2 is Pat, he's
quote UN quote, just a dad, you

635
00:38:36,360 --> 00:38:41,000
know what I mean?
Like regular people that have

636
00:38:41,160 --> 00:38:48,720
chosen in faith to believe and
then to obey and the miraculous

637
00:38:48,720 --> 00:38:51,360
happens.
Yeah, and absolutely.

638
00:38:51,360 --> 00:38:53,520
They're no different than the
people in the Bible.

639
00:38:53,520 --> 00:38:56,440
And I'll just sort of at least
close this conceptually with,

640
00:38:57,360 --> 00:39:00,720
you know, here's Gideon, who is
famous, right?

641
00:39:00,800 --> 00:39:04,920
Bible stories written about him.
And as you said, he's hiding,

642
00:39:05,080 --> 00:39:06,480
right?
That's not a man of great

643
00:39:06,480 --> 00:39:10,000
courage.
We know that Moses, right,

644
00:39:10,640 --> 00:39:16,800
killed somebody and he's in the
wilderness hiding, you know, and

645
00:39:16,800 --> 00:39:21,400
yet Moses is a is a biblical
Titan, right?

646
00:39:21,760 --> 00:39:24,040
But he he also didn't get to go
into the promised land.

647
00:39:24,240 --> 00:39:27,480
You know what I mean?
And then the the biggie being

648
00:39:27,520 --> 00:39:32,360
David, he is he is indicated and
this is really to me, this is

649
00:39:32,560 --> 00:39:36,360
this is aspirational,
inspirational type of stuff.

650
00:39:36,360 --> 00:39:41,600
He being David is indicated as a
man after God's own heart.

651
00:39:42,680 --> 00:39:49,040
And yet he sinned in the combo
of adultery and then murder to

652
00:39:49,040 --> 00:39:52,520
cover it up.
Now none of that is excusing any

653
00:39:52,520 --> 00:39:58,560
of that, but the the more that I
read the Bible and what I mean

654
00:39:58,560 --> 00:40:03,280
by that is the multiple times of
which I have read it through,

655
00:40:03,800 --> 00:40:10,040
the more I see myself in all of
these people and the more I can

656
00:40:10,040 --> 00:40:18,160
relate to God's blessing when
His people are aligned with Him

657
00:40:19,360 --> 00:40:26,360
and the trials and challenges
and and and chaos that ensues.

658
00:40:26,840 --> 00:40:28,960
When they go about it their own
way.

659
00:40:29,720 --> 00:40:34,720
And so as I've gotten older, for
me, it's become much more about

660
00:40:35,240 --> 00:40:40,680
I want to obey the king out of
love, to glorify him because

661
00:40:40,680 --> 00:40:44,440
he's worthy.
Yeah, I, I view it a very

662
00:40:44,440 --> 00:40:47,800
similar way.
I want to, I want to obey him in

663
00:40:47,800 --> 00:40:52,320
part because he's worthy, but
also because I want to see what

664
00:40:52,320 --> 00:40:55,880
he can do with it.
You know, I want to see what

665
00:40:56,000 --> 00:40:59,960
God's blessing looks like, not
only because I want to

666
00:40:59,960 --> 00:41:03,360
experience it, but I, I want to
know God.

667
00:41:03,520 --> 00:41:06,360
I want to see what he does.
I want to, I want to notice his

668
00:41:06,360 --> 00:41:10,440
hand at work in the world.
And if we, if we just follow

669
00:41:10,440 --> 00:41:12,760
that principle, obeying
obedience brings blessing

670
00:41:12,760 --> 00:41:14,880
because it's God's provision and
his protection.

671
00:41:15,520 --> 00:41:19,760
Man, what, what, what have we
not seen that we are yet to see?

672
00:41:20,440 --> 00:41:23,520
I, I believe there's amazing,
amazing things God wants to do,

673
00:41:24,040 --> 00:41:28,120
but many times you know, it's
his people who are not on the

674
00:41:28,120 --> 00:41:31,640
cooperative program with him,
you know, so.

675
00:41:32,480 --> 00:41:37,080
Yeah, Michael Thaler talks about
that in his episode where he

676
00:41:37,080 --> 00:41:42,680
says he's seen people talk
themselves out of God, doing

677
00:41:42,680 --> 00:41:45,160
some amazing and incredible
thing through them.

678
00:41:45,160 --> 00:41:48,800
Yeah, yeah, absolutely,
absolutely awesome.

679
00:41:49,360 --> 00:41:51,800
You know, it's kind of funny.
I remember early in our married

680
00:41:51,800 --> 00:41:54,080
life, you know, my wife and I
both kind of grew up in the

681
00:41:54,080 --> 00:41:56,520
church, in different, very
different churches.

682
00:41:56,520 --> 00:41:59,880
But we both hit our early adult
years with this kind of

683
00:42:00,840 --> 00:42:05,400
sanctimonious sort of attitude,
you know, where we would read

684
00:42:05,400 --> 00:42:10,520
the Bible and we would get angry
about how godless Jacob was to

685
00:42:10,520 --> 00:42:13,680
deceive his brother.
And we get angry at Solomon for

686
00:42:13,840 --> 00:42:17,560
supposedly being the wisest man,
but he has 600 wives.

687
00:42:17,560 --> 00:42:19,560
How stupid is that?
You know, and we're being all

688
00:42:19,560 --> 00:42:24,080
kind of kind of judgmental and.
And we didn't recognize it, but.

689
00:42:24,080 --> 00:42:26,960
But after a while, it began to
dawn on us.

690
00:42:27,600 --> 00:42:29,200
Yeah, that's exactly who they
were.

691
00:42:29,200 --> 00:42:33,600
And look how awesome God was to
do what he did with people like

692
00:42:33,600 --> 00:42:35,560
that.
You know, that's really the

693
00:42:35,560 --> 00:42:39,840
point of the stories and our
obedience is is kind of just the

694
00:42:39,840 --> 00:42:43,680
blessing we get from is kind of
a fringe benefit from being able

695
00:42:43,680 --> 00:42:46,680
to say look what God does look
what look what he is is all

696
00:42:46,680 --> 00:42:50,840
about as far as glory As for his
his grandeur and his might and

697
00:42:50,840 --> 00:42:53,120
His Majesty.
We want to we want to show him

698
00:42:53,120 --> 00:42:59,160
off and what better way than to
take steps of faith that have no

699
00:42:59,160 --> 00:43:01,480
other explanation.
The result anyway has no other

700
00:43:01,480 --> 00:43:02,880
explanation except that God did
it.

701
00:43:03,960 --> 00:43:05,080
That's what I love about your
show.

702
00:43:05,080 --> 00:43:07,520
When you look, you see it's
gone.

703
00:43:09,080 --> 00:43:11,120
That's the idea.
But you got to look.

704
00:43:11,120 --> 00:43:13,000
You got to look.
Yeah, you do.

705
00:43:13,400 --> 00:43:17,920
Yeah.
OK, let's go back really, really

706
00:43:17,920 --> 00:43:23,240
quickly here, because I really
liked how you framed it into a

707
00:43:23,240 --> 00:43:28,760
cogent bumper sticker.
You said obedience leads to

708
00:43:28,760 --> 00:43:30,520
blessing.
Is that what it was?

709
00:43:31,400 --> 00:43:33,840
Yeah.
Or obedience precedes blessing.

710
00:43:33,960 --> 00:43:36,240
Something along those lines.
Something, something along that

711
00:43:36,240 --> 00:43:38,920
line.
Yeah, yeah.

712
00:43:38,960 --> 00:43:41,440
I don't know.
They come out and I don't keep

713
00:43:41,440 --> 00:43:44,400
track of them.
Yeah, I went to write it down

714
00:43:44,400 --> 00:43:46,440
and then we kept going.
So yeah.

715
00:43:46,880 --> 00:43:49,120
And, and I think I think there's
probably a caveat that needs to

716
00:43:49,120 --> 00:43:52,520
be said about that.
God's the one who gets to

717
00:43:52,520 --> 00:43:55,920
determine what the blessing is
and when the blessing happens.

718
00:43:56,400 --> 00:44:00,120
So we've got to be careful we
don't get bent out of shape when

719
00:44:00,120 --> 00:44:02,960
we take that phrase or something
like it as a formula.

720
00:44:03,360 --> 00:44:05,520
And we think, oh, I'm obeying,
I'm obeying, I'm obeying.

721
00:44:05,520 --> 00:44:07,120
Where's the blessing, God?
Where's the blessing?

722
00:44:07,560 --> 00:44:09,800
Well, he's God.
God.

723
00:44:10,200 --> 00:44:13,040
Just hang on.
Just hang on and wait.

724
00:44:13,280 --> 00:44:16,440
You know, just like we began the
conversation with having to

725
00:44:16,440 --> 00:44:19,960
learn how to wait, we got to
wait after we've obeyed as well.

726
00:44:19,960 --> 00:44:22,040
You know you don't always see
the answers and the blessings

727
00:44:22,040 --> 00:44:24,960
right away.
Yeah, I mean, the Israelites

728
00:44:24,960 --> 00:44:27,640
were were almost infamous for
that.

729
00:44:28,160 --> 00:44:30,200
You know, they're LED out of
Egypt.

730
00:44:30,680 --> 00:44:35,680
And for those that haven't
really read the Scriptures, I'm

731
00:44:35,680 --> 00:44:37,360
going to highlight a quick point
here.

732
00:44:38,360 --> 00:44:44,240
They are after all of the
plagues have occurred and the

733
00:44:44,480 --> 00:44:49,040
Egyptians kick them out.
The Pharaoh says get out, like

734
00:44:49,040 --> 00:44:54,480
get out.
They plunder through God's

735
00:44:54,480 --> 00:44:57,560
direction.
They plunder that country.

736
00:44:58,400 --> 00:45:01,400
And then moments later, in the
grand scheme of things, they're

737
00:45:01,400 --> 00:45:03,600
wandering around the desert and
they're like that we should go

738
00:45:03,600 --> 00:45:05,040
back.
This is terrible.

739
00:45:05,960 --> 00:45:07,640
Yeah, it was better there.
Right.

740
00:45:07,920 --> 00:45:10,160
It was better.
It was better there as slaves.

741
00:45:10,440 --> 00:45:15,600
And then, you know, they've got
their backs against the the Red

742
00:45:15,600 --> 00:45:21,840
Sea and I guarantee you none of
them are thinking God's going to

743
00:45:21,840 --> 00:45:25,400
part this.
You know, we have the benefit in

744
00:45:25,400 --> 00:45:29,920
modern day of reading that story
and you know, people have heard

745
00:45:29,920 --> 00:45:33,120
it or read it so many times.
It's just like I just parted the

746
00:45:33,120 --> 00:45:38,640
sea, right?
If you really stop and consider

747
00:45:38,640 --> 00:45:43,920
that you take the the 100
brightest Israelites and you put

748
00:45:43,920 --> 00:45:47,080
them in a brainstorming session
and you say, what do you guys

749
00:45:47,080 --> 00:45:49,720
think God's going to do with
these Egyptians coming?

750
00:45:50,240 --> 00:45:54,200
I don't think any of them come
up with, we're going to walk

751
00:45:54,200 --> 00:45:56,440
through in a couple of hours.
We're going to walk through this

752
00:45:56,440 --> 00:45:58,440
large body of water on dry
ground.

753
00:45:59,360 --> 00:46:00,760
Yeah, yeah.
No way.

754
00:46:02,600 --> 00:46:06,520
Yeah, I had a a mentor a long
time ago told me, if you can, if

755
00:46:06,520 --> 00:46:09,040
you can think it up, God's
probably not going to do it.

756
00:46:13,360 --> 00:46:15,480
That's good.
That's good.

757
00:46:16,080 --> 00:46:19,840
Well, praise be to God.
Carrie, thanks a bunch for the

758
00:46:19,840 --> 00:46:22,400
fun conversation here about
obedience.

759
00:46:22,880 --> 00:46:24,480
Really appreciate you coming on
when you.

760
00:46:24,480 --> 00:46:27,520
Look, man, so welcome, Nick,
I'm, I'm thankful you're doing

761
00:46:27,520 --> 00:46:30,320
this.
I enjoy every time my app pops

762
00:46:30,320 --> 00:46:32,560
up a new episode.
I'm I'm putting that in my

763
00:46:32,560 --> 00:46:35,000
playlist, man.
Awesome.

764
00:46:35,320 --> 00:46:36,840
All right, Well, we'll talk
soon, man.

765
00:46:37,280 --> 00:46:37,560
Cheers.